^Nevermind that he didn't campaign on it in the first place. He said he "supported" the project. He didn't say "I'll build it this way, by this time, using this amount of money from this funding source."
People in this thread have openly acknowledged that he "supported" the project, the Herald reports that people in South East Calgary took him at his word that the project was "supported" by Nenshi, and now he's backing away from it.
I think it's perfectly understandible that people are ticked off - it's why the Herald had it as front page news.
It takes the luster off of the mayor and sends negative signals.
The worst part though, is that it happens within 1 month of being elected.
I think people who believed him will remember this long term.
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People in this thread have openly acknowledged that he "supported" the project, the Herald reports that people in South East Calgary took him at his word that the project was "supported" by Nenshi, and now he's backing away from it.
I think it's perfectly understandible that people are ticked off - it's why the Herald had it as front page news.
It takes the luster off of the mayor and sends negative signals.
The worst part though, is that it happens within 1 month of being elected.
I think people who believed him will remember this long term.
I'm sorry but this is off base, and it's apparent you don't have a complete understanding of what is going on here.
To be clear:
- Naheed Nenshi isn't "backing off" anything, much less a promise he never made in the first place.
In the fourth post of this thread, frinkprof pointed out that the funding was never intended for the SE LRT and actually couldn't have been used for the SE LRT. This has absolutely nothing to to with Nenshi or his campaign.
From personal experience, dedicated bus lanes do work if planned well (so there goes that idea). I actually preferred the bus to the subway for those routes that had the bus lanes.
I'm sorry but this is off base, and it's apparent you don't have a complete understanding of what is going on here.
To be clear:
- Naheed Nenshi isn't "backing off" anything, much less a promise he never made in the first place.
Since you are the person who is disputing what Nenshi said can you find what he actually said? I think it is important to be clear on what he said as part of his campaign.
Mayor Naheed Nenshi's shift away from making the southeast LRT a priority stands to upset colleagues and enrage a quadrant that has long felt ignored by civic leaders.
Council will debate a report Monday that urges the construction of a few mass-transit busways instead of the southeast train line.
In light of that, Nenshi has stopped citing the LRT extension as one of his key priorities, which include the airport tunnel, balancing the budget and council reforms.
]Since you are the person who is disputing what Nenshi said can you find what he actually said?[/B] I think it is important to be clear on what he said as part of his campaign.
Mayor Naheed Nenshi's shift away from making the southeast LRT a priority stands to upset colleagues and enrage a quadrant that has long felt ignored by civic leaders.
Council will debate a report Monday that urges the construction of a few mass-transit busways instead of the southeast train line.
In light of that, Nenshi has stopped citing the LRT extension as one of his key priorities, which include the airport tunnel, balancing the budget and council reforms.
I'm arguing that he didn't say something, and I can not outright prove a negative. The onus is on the person who is saying that he "campaigned" on the SE LRT to prove that he did. I take "campaigned" to mean that he promised to build it in a rough timeframe, not merely vaguely "supporting" it. Almost everyone, in a vague sense, supports the SE LRT, but not everyone prioritizes it.
For what it's worth though, here's Nenshi's Better Idea on transit.
Of course, this is all beside the fact that the story posted by the thread creator, the one we've been discussing, doesn't mean that any decision has been made one way or the other on the SE LRT. It's just an administration report. Furthermore, all that has happened is that a funding source, that probably could not have been used for the SE LRT project anyway, has been recommended to be used elsewhere. It's not a de-prioritization of the SE LRT project.
So basically the province can approve how their money is used, so if the province doesn't want it used on the SE LRT, it won't be used on the SE LRT.
I don't think that anyone in Calgary would like to see the money go unused, and I don't think that McIver, Bronconnier, or anyone else would have been able to do anything else with it either.
I think that the kickers are the following two statements:
So basically the province can approve how their money is used, so if the province doesn't want it used on the SE LRT, it won't be used on the SE LRT.
I don't think that anyone in Calgary would like to see the money go unused, and I don't think that McIver, Bronconnier, or anyone else would have been able to do anything else with it either.
That's exactly it. Using the Green TRIP funding was always contingent on the Province agreeing on it.
The Green TRIP program was set out by the Province to be used on regional projects. Even then they've been skittish on previous proposals to use the money on commuter buses for bedroom communities, Cochrane in particular, citing them as "not innovative enough."
The previous council wanted to apply to use $800MM of the Green TRIP money to build a SE LRT from Douglasglen to 10th Avenue (an absurd stopping point by the way, but one that could be built for that amount). They were barking up the wrong tree at the time given the nature of the funding source, and administration has now come back with a report saying as much.
Administration is recommending to council that they adopt option 3.
Costs are:
Option 1:
$200M for LRVs (city's matching funds are from pre-allocated monies for 20 LRV's)
$25.6M for SE LRT pre-design
$244.8M for SE LRT construction (matched by $489.6M from greentrip)
Option 2:
$320M for SE LRT from city matched hopefully by $640M from greentrip with no guarantee
Option 3:
$200M for LRV's (same as Option 1)
$10M for SE LRT pre-design
$15.6M for BRT now
Remaining GreenTrip funds to BRT as they become available past 2014 based on recommendations in NM2010-08 which is due in February 2011
I'm arguing that he didn't say something, and I can not outright prove a negative. The onus is on the person who is saying that he "campaigned" on the SE LRT to prove that he did. I take "campaigned" to mean that he promised to build it in a rough timeframe, not merely vaguely "supporting" it. Almost everyone, in a vague sense, supports the SE LRT, but not everyone prioritizes it.
For what it's worth though, here's Nenshi's Better Idea on transit.
..................
Of course, this is all beside the fact that the story posted by the thread creator, the one we've been discussing, doesn't mean that any decision has been made one way or the other on the SE LRT. It's just an administration report. Furthermore, all that has happened is that a funding source, that probably could not have been used for the SE LRT project anyway, has been recommended to be used elsewhere. It's not a de-prioritization of the SE LRT project.
I agree with you 100%. I was looking for some information of what Nenshi said about the SE transit solution. Trying to find if he actually said SE LRT would be done.
I voted for him because he didn't give specifics of what he would do. He said he would do proper reviews and make the right choices. For example. The budget. Some candidates were saying that they would lower the tax increase by x percent. While Nenshi said he would review the budget and make the right choices.
So then I would be surprised if he actually said he would get the SE LRT done.
Thanks for the links. I don't see anything specific about him saying the SE LRT would be done. I do see he has some comments about using Buses as part of the solution.
You can split hairs all you want, but in the court of public opinion and as being reported by the major newspaper in the city, a perception and expectation was created by Nenshi during the campaign that the SE LRT would be built.
He did nothing to dissuade that perception during the campaign. Once elected, he is now attempting to do just that.
That is leaving a bitter taste in mouths of voters in the SE (according to the Herald). I can't say I blame them.
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The Herald tried to claim that Flames fans were almost united in their opposition to the signings of Jokinen and Tanguay too. It is dangerous to assume the opinion of a columnist matches the opinion of the population.
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You can split hairs all you want, but in the court of public opinion and as being reported by the major newspaper in the city, a perception and expectation was created by Nenshi during the campaign that the SE LRT would be built.
He did nothing to dissuade that perception during the campaign. Once elected, he is now attempting to do just that.
That is leaving a bitter taste in mouths of voters in the SE (according to the Herald). I can't say I blame them.
A few questions:
1. Do you understand the difference between an administration report and a council decision?
2. Do you understand the difference between the administration and council, and which one the mayor is a part of?
3. Do you understand that there are differences between sources of funding and that some can't be used on certain things?
To be fair, the Herald was pulling the McIvor train the whole way, and they seemed fairly upset over the surge in polls Nenshi was getting in the last weeks of the campaign, with no less than 3 of their big editorialists fearmongering against his newfound popularity.
Also, if you read the Herald articles, major verbage and space is given to Shane Keating, a McIvor supportor and the new alderman for Ward 12, extending his dismay at the 'mayor's decision'. The other alderman in the region understood that this is in regards to the approved use of provincial government funds, rather than make it an occasion to tow the party line, unlike Keating.
Administration is recommending to council that they adopt option 3.
And if council adopts option 3 with the mayor also in favour of that option; then he would have failed to keep his promise to make the SE LRT a priority.
Just last night on Global he was saying how we need better ways of getting people around; and those better ways don't always mean more interchanges.
Building the SE LRT is never going to be cheaper; in fact didn't the current builder of the West LRT say they could do it for a fraction of the cost because so much of the heavy machinery needed was already in town?
And if council adopts option 3 with the mayor also in favour of that option; then he would have failed to keep his promise to make the SE LRT a priority.
Just last night on Global he was saying how we need better ways of getting people around; and those better ways don't always mean more interchanges.
Building the SE LRT is never going to be cheaper; in fact didn't the current builder of the West LRT say they could do it for a fraction of the cost because so much of the heavy machinery needed was already in town?
Can you please show where Nenshi said he would make the SE LRT a priority? Thanks.
And if council adopts option 3 with the mayor also in favour of that option; then he would have failed to keep his promise to make the SE LRT a priority.
Just last night on Global he was saying how we need better ways of getting people around; and those better ways don't always mean more interchanges.
Building the SE LRT is never going to be cheaper; in fact didn't the current builder of the West LRT say they could do it for a fraction of the cost because so much of the heavy machinery needed was already in town?
That's all well and good, but the outcome is inevitible in the case of the funding source in question. If council adopts option 1 or 2, the following will happen:
1. They apply for Green Trip funding
2. They get rejected by the Province
Keep in mind that neither of the options involve the SE LRT breaking ground right away, they just allocate the dollars (or at least attempt to, with little guarantee that it will happen). SE LRT is already a priority. It is the at the top of the list for transportation projects in the city, being made so by the previous council. You still need a matching, and appropriate, funding source to implement priorities though. There's still time to secure that, likely involving some sort of P3 model, by the time SE LRT would have ever broken ground with Green Trip funding.
You can split hairs all you want, but in the court of public opinion and as being reported by the major newspaper in the city, a perception and expectation was created by Nenshi during the campaign that the SE LRT would be built.
He did nothing to dissuade that perception during the campaign. Once elected, he is now attempting to do just that.
That is leaving a bitter taste in mouths of voters in the SE (according to the Herald). I can't say I blame them.
I wouldn't call it splitting hairs, but it is definitely splitting the fluff from the facts. I think that there's too much weight being put onto the Herald's reporting (or any newspaper, newscast, etc.). If you cut through the clutter and look at the facts, this becomes a non-issue: the funding isn't going to happen if it gets used fully/largely on the SE LRT, and that's not surprising at all. But I understand that getting people riled up with a perceived injustice helps move papers.
I haven't seen anything that actually puts the SE LRT at any lower of a priority than it was before or during the election. This is really quite simple: the money was never intended to be used on it and can't be used on it. The Herald can quote upset community members in the SE all they want and make an issue out of nothing, but getting angry at Nenshi for breaking promises that he never made, and for not spending money on things that it can't be spent on is misguided.
As far as I can see, the SE LRT remains as much of a priority today as it did last week. As soon as a sizable chunk of money can be found to do it properly, it will be done. And that's all I remember Nenshi promising about it.
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