Barack Obama believed to be a Muslim by one fifth of Americans

[MarchHare]

They are expected to act in the best interests of th residents. They are not acting in New Yorkers best interests.

Whose "best interests" are you referring to? Is it your contention that the Muslims who live and work in and around lower Manhattan, the majority of whom are legal US citizens, are not "real Americans" entitled to the same rights and protections of other groups?

What you and those of you on the wrong side of this debate seem to be forgetting is that the people who will be using this mosque are not the 9/11 terrorists or extremists from Saudi Arabia or Egypt. They're American citizens who are part of the Muslim community in New York City. They were affected by the terrorist attacks just as much as any other New Yorker. How many innocent Muslims worked in the Twin Towers and died on 9/11, do you think? Their friends and relatives are entitled to a place of worship in their community as much as the Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and members of any other religion are.

Don't you suppose Americans ought to be forgiving and show tolerance and respect towards Muslims living in New York? Don't you think that's the best way to combat extremism, by rising above it? Isn't that what Jesus would do?

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn's Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.

Nevermind the fact that the New York Muslims who will be using this facility aren't America's "enemies". You should get the point.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

He is an idiot for thinking there is a constitutional issue involved at all. Cities have a right to control zoning and what is built on city land. They are expected to act in the best interests of th residents. They are not acting in New Yorkers best interests. They are bowing to a special interest group because that is what liberals do.

Where's the outrage over the Greek Orthadox church being refused a building permit to rebuild on their own property. Why wasn't the President calling up the constution for them? He didn't because white christians are not a demographic he cares for. The press didn't make a fuss because the city has always claimed the right to regulate land useage within the city limits.

Dude, you sound like Kanye.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

Shouldn't be allowed to build a church near Oklahoma then. Since the Oklahoma city bombing was perpetrated by someone raised Catholic.

Clearly, Catholics should have their constitutional rights stripped for the area immediately around Oklahoma. Because it would be "insensitive" to build a church there.

Why are Christian conservatives such dips all the time?

He might of been raised Catholic but, he was a practicing Atheist. He called his own pending death a "systems shutdown".

In any event that crime wasn't committed in the name of Jehovah. There also isn't a current Catholic organization trying to blow Oklahoma city today.

And if that was the case I'm sure the Catholic church would have enough empathy not to try to build a church near the building that was blown up or name the church after the location of the explosion. If they didn't I'm sure the city planners would have a say.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I'm not twisting anything; I'm pretty sure everyone here is aware that the context behind that survey being the proposed mosque near the World Trade Center.

That point doesn't at all change the fact that 48% of respondents replied that Muslims should be denied their constitutional right to build a place of worship at a location where other religions would be permitted to do so. I can understand the argument that it's culturally insensitive to build a mosque there, but by no means should it be banned so long as the plan satisfies all NYC building codes (which it does).

When I first heard about the proposed mosque (and community center) I was a bit upset by it. Once I thought about it, and the bolded portion of your post was obvious to me from the start, I have come to the conclusion that the best thing Americans can do in a situation like this is show that they are BETTER than the extremists who perpetrated 9/11 and welcome these peace loving muslims with open arms.

Islamic fascists want war with America, for many different reasons, most of which are not even remotely justifiable. 9/11 was a result of their desire to create hatred as much as it was done to create havoc.

Break the cycle. I voted for Obama, the first time I have voted for a Presidential candidate with a D by his name and I have been disappointed in most of what he has done to date. However, I applaud him for his stance here and lets not forget Mayor Bloomberg who took the same stance long before the President. Kudos to him as well.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

He might of been raised Catholic but, he was a practicing Atheist. He called his own pending death a "systems shutdown".

In any event that crime wasn't committed in the name of Jehovah. There also isn't a current Catholic organization trying to blow Oklahoma city today.

And if that was the case I'm sure the Catholic church would have enough empathy not to try to build a church near the building that was blown up or name the church after the location of the explosion. If they didn't I'm sure the city planners would have a say.

It's fun watching you demonstrate over and over again that you have absolutely no idea about what you are talking about. Like not a clue. A fascinating level of complete and utter lack of knowledge.

[Reggie Dunlop]

There's a mosque up the road from me. I didn't realize I have been conquered.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Whose "best interests" are you referring to? Is it your contention that the Muslims who live and work in and around lower Manhattan, the majority of whom are legal US citizens, are not "real Americans" entitled to the same rights and protections of other groups?

What you and those of you on the wrong side of this debate seem to be forgetting is that the people who will be using this mosque are not the 9/11 terrorists or extremists from Saudi Arabia or Egypt. They're American citizens who are part of the Muslim community in New York City. They were affected by the terrorist attacks just as much as any other New Yorker. How many innocent Muslims worked in the Twin Towers and died on 9/11, do you think? Their friends and relatives are entitled to a place of worship in their community as much as the Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and members of any other religion are.

Sure American muslims have suffered and they certainly have a right to practice their religion. There are over a hundred mosques already in New York city. Nobody has said they shouldn't be allowed to build anymore. The issue is whether or not this location is appropriate. "Ground Zero Mosque" as the builders wish to call it will cause distress to millions of New Yorkers who have already suffered a lot. Aren't their feelings important too? Why aren't these Muslims showing empathy towards those non-Muslims who have suffered at the hand of Muslims?

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Don't you suppose Americans ought to be forgiving and show tolerance and respect towards Muslims living in New York? Don't you think that's the best way to combat extremism, by rising above it? Isn't that what Jesus would do?

Americans have and continue to show tolerance and respect towards Muslims living in New York and across America. They bent over backwards not to lump them all into one basket. They did this even though the terrorist were found to come out of the same Mosques as their peace loving counterpart. America deserves a lot of credit for their restraint in trying times.

As far as "what Jesus would do" I think you should read how he handled the false teachers of His day. Jesus' mission wasn't a political one so the question is a little difficult to answer. But, don't think for a moment that Jesus was tolerant of sinners. He may have dined with sinners but, that didn't stop Him from calling them to repent. He preached on Hell more than any other New Testament figure. He also declared Himself as the only way to God.

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Nevermind the fact that the New York Muslims who will be using this facility aren't America's "enemies". You should get the point.

You can't know that. The fact is that those American enemies worshiped at the same Mosques as their non-violent counterparts. Moreover you will find pockets of sympathy for their actions in many if not most Mosques in America. Don't you think a Mosque two blocks away from the Trade centers explosions and named "Ground Zero Mosque" might seem a little bit poetic to these Muslims who hate America? I would think it would attract militants if for no other reason than to gloat.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by valo403

It's fun watching you demonstrate over and over again that you have absolutely no idea about what you are talking about. Like not a clue. A fascinating level of complete and utter lack of knowledge.

And you are like a fly at picnic.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

And you are like a fly at picnic.

I guess to people who continually pretend as if they know the law in regards to zoning and the Constitution when it's clear that they have no idea it would seem that way.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by valo403

I guess to people who continually pretend as if they know the law in regards to zoning and the Constitution when it's clear that they have no idea it would seem that way.

Don't waste your breath. Calgaryborn's ignorance is not an accident of circumstance but a crucial component of his worldview. He believes nothing that he does not already know to be true. That kind of worldview is utterly immune to reason or evidence.

[MarchHare]

Don't you think a Mosque two blocks away from the Trade centers explosions and named "Ground Zero Mosque" might seem a little bit poetic to these Muslims who hate America?

You do know that the facility isn't actually named the "Ground Zero Mosque", right? For your future information, the building is officially called the "Park51 Islamic Cultural Center", named after its address of 51 Park Place, Manhattan.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

You do know that the facility isn't actually named the "Ground Zero Mosque", right? For your future information, the building is officially called the "Park51 Islamic Cultural Center", named after its address of 51 Park Place, Manhattan.

You do know that the first person to publically call it the Ground Zero Mosque was the Iman(sp) who is spearheading the project.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

You do know that the first person to publically call it the Ground Zero Mosque was the Iman(sp) who is spearheading the project.

Can you please post a link.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

Build the mosque... but wait.

9/11 was less than 10 years ago. The wound is still fresh the families still emotional about the whole event. Even the construction workers that had to finish demolishing the world trade don't want to do it, emotions are still too high. http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...tc_mosque.html

Now tell me the union construction workers are tea party... they are simply blue collar new yorkers. I also really doubt they had VW in Israel in 1954. Later after there is more time to adjust would be more appropriate.

This is not just about religion either as the planning for the attack was done in a Berlin mosque as well as the potential for Al Qaeda propaganda calling this a win and infuriating the populace. Also this is not over by any means. 9/11 was the opening shot, the war is still going on.

There are families that agree with the mosque and some disagree.
The locals around the area agree with the mosque.

So which ones have authority to say yes or no over the others?

[SeeBass]

I could have sworn that there are crosses all around the oklahoma bombing site and nobody asked christians to apologize for it either.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

You do know that the first person to publically call it the Ground Zero Mosque was the Iman(sp) who is spearheading the project.

Please please please provide some proof of this.

Please tell me you are not poorly informed and it is just us that are wrong.

I have also heard that the application for the Mosque was before 9-11 but I would doubt that, but if anybody can find a link it would be appreciated.

[mikey_the_redneck]

This mosque really should not be an issue. It is just bad optics is all, because alot of dumbed down Americans still think muslims actually pulled off 9/11.

Muslims are peaceful people who you don't want to provoke. America is just hurting itself by angering these people further and further thereby creating more "terrorists".

They need to stop murdering their families over in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq etc., for the so-called "war on terror". It is nothing more than an exercise in colonialism anyways.

I think the mainstream media has made this an issue more than anyone. They are really great at dividing people....

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

This mosque really should not be an issue. It is just bad optics is all, because alot of dumbed down Americans still think muslims actually pulled off 9/11.

Muslims are peaceful people who you don't want to provoke. America is just hurting itself by angering these people further and further thereby creating more "terrorists".

They need to stop murdering their families over in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq etc., for the so-called "war on terror". It is nothing more than an exercise in colonialism anyways.

I think the mainstream media has made this an issue more than anyone. They are really great at dividing people....

Do I dare ask who you believe actually destroyed the Twin Towers? Or do I even need to?

[puckluck]

What I want to know is how safe are the people going to feel when they go to pray?

I'm almost certain this mosque will be the target of several vandals, and maybe even a bombing or two. At the end of the day the mosque needs to ask itself if it's worth the risk. If even one person is injured or killed in the future then I say it wasn't worth the risk.

I strongly believe they have a right to put it up, but I dont know if it's worth it.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by puckluck

Can you please post a link.

http://www.cordobainitiative.org/

Here's the link but, you won't find it anymore. The site is being cleaned.