Why on earth do we suck so much at certain sports?

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Care to explain:

Norway (@ 13 medals, 4.8M pop)
Austria (@9 medals, 8.3M pop)
Switzerland (@7 medals, 7.7M pop)
Sweden (@7 medals, 9.3M pop)



Yes, Canada is not a top competitor due to our population

And Russia wants a word with you

And don't forget the Czechs, who seem to be good at everything, summer or winter, and there is only 10 million of them...

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Care to explain:

Norway (@ 13 medals, 4.8M pop)
Austria (@9 medals, 8.3M pop)
Switzerland (@7 medals, 7.7M pop)
Sweden (@7 medals, 9.3M pop)



Yes, Canada is not a top competitor due to our population

And Russia wants a word with you

The Olympics aren't exactly over. Canada still has a plethora of events where they are expected to medal whereas the nordic and alpine events that those countries dominate in are almost to a close.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by JayP

The Olympics aren't exactly over. Canada still has a plethora of events where they are expected to medal whereas the nordic and alpine events that those countries dominate in are almost to a close.

How many medals have Canadians let slip because they chocked?

Ski Cross, Luge (W), Bobsleigh, Downhill, Speed Skating, Short Track etc. are all events Canada should have had at least a bronze medal and walked away with nothing, some not even close!

Also not to be a debbie downer but even the four golds the country has won they have backed into them hoping the person in the lead failed. I don't think Canada has gone into any event they were suppose to win, and actually won it.

I know people keep saying wait for the last week and we will start winning more but nothing I have seen from the medals we were suppose win that makes me BELIEVE now! I want to, but just don't see a reason to get excited just so I can be let down again.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by HOOT

How many medals have Canadians let slip because they chocked?

Ski Cross, Luge (W), Bobsleigh, Downhill, Speed Skating, Short Track etc. are all events Canada should have had at least a bronze medal and walked away with nothing, some not even close!

Also not to be a debbie downer but even the four golds the country has won they have backed into them hoping the person in the lead failed. I don't think Canada has gone into any event they were suppose to win, and actually won it.

I know people keep saying wait for the last week and we will start winning more but nothing I have seen from the medals we were suppose win that makes me BELIEVE now! I want to, but just don't see a reason to get excited just so I can be let down again.

I'm not saying that Canada hasn't done as well expected, only that any comparison of Canada's results to other countries really has to wait until the games are over. There's still a full weeks worth of events left and medal totals aren't exactly something that increases linearly (ie; winning 8 medals in week one has no correlation with winning 8 medals in week two).

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by HOOT

How many medals have Canadians let slip because they chocked?

Ski Cross, Luge (W), Bobsleigh, Downhill, Speed Skating, Short Track etc. are all events Canada should have had at least a bronze medal and walked away with nothing, some not even close!

Also not to be a debbie downer but even the four golds the country has won they have backed into them hoping the person in the lead failed. I don't think Canada has gone into any event they were suppose to win, and actually won it.

I know people keep saying wait for the last week and we will start winning more but nothing I have seen from the medals we were suppose win that makes me BELIEVE now! I want to, but just don't see a reason to get excited just so I can be let down again.

Geez, you're really taking this hard eh? I'd say Bilodeau at least went out there with a purpose and won his gold outright, despite the Smith camp whining about it, and Montgomery's run was gold-worthy for sure, same with Snowboard cross....I do however completely agree with the case of choke from athletes like Paradis, Hamelins, Wotherspoon and pretty much any male speed skater, not to mention our craptastic figure skating program...

All that matters in this country tho is Team Canada Hockey and Curling, those are the 2 sports we're "supposed" to win...

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Care to explain:

Norway (@ 13 medals, 4.8M pop)
Austria (@9 medals, 8.3M pop)
Switzerland (@7 medals, 7.7M pop)
Sweden (@7 medals, 9.3M pop)



Yes, Canada is not a top competitor due to our population

And Russia wants a word with you

Yes, national population is too simplistic.

A better way for me to put it is athletes participating in particular winter sports per country. Population/participation.

Probably, Norway has a significant number of athletes competing in nordic skiing, relative to most other countries on the planet.

If China and Russia started putting significant numbers into nordic skiing, so long Norway?

When other countries get heavily into moguls, short-track, skeleton etc, Canada's medal counts will go down.

BTW, the US will soon pass Canada in minor hockey registrations, and we may have to get used to being the underdog.

[Muta]

.. and here's the thing - we're forgetting that curling and hockey are our flagship events. Much in the same way that speedskating is to the Netherlands / Korea, x-country is to Norway, downhill is to Austria and Switzerland, etc.

95% of all the competing countries in the Winter Olympics normally couldn't hold a candle to the talent we pump out of this country for Canada's two aformentioned events. Hockey and curling are our bread and butter. We're miles ahead of others, but I think we're so used to that we want to see other successes in other events, which is fair and natural.

[Schmidtyboosh]

Here is the bottom line
Winter NSO Excellence Funding
Olympic SportsTorino QuadrennialVancouver Quadrennial
Alpine $1,805,000 $8,735,400
Biathlon $918,000 $1,585,298
Bobsleigh $895,000 $4,698,489
X Country $1,085,000 $4,535,980
Curling $810,000 $3,617,500
Figure Skating $825,000 $2,740,500
Freestyle $1,187,000 $8,420,407
Hockey M $843,000 $1,405,100
Hockey W $1,019,000 $4,849,000
Luge $585,000 $2,816,142
Nordic Combined $-0.00 $35,000
Skeleton $805,000 $3,536,406
Ski Cross $- $3,011,420
Ski Jumping $150,000 $262,500
Snowboard $1,321,000 $6,902,605
Speed Skating LT $1,023,000 $7,888,480
Speed Skating ST $890,000 $4,621,329
Olympic Subtotal: $14,161,000 $69,661,556

Paralympic Sports
Para Alpine $640,000 $4,576,728
Para Nordic $330,000 $2,841,097
Sledge Hockey $320,000 $1,612,000
Wheelchair Curling $225,000 $1,088,500
Paralympic Subtotal: $1,515,000 $10,118,325

Canadian Sport Centres
Enhanced Support $1,324,827 $2,650,000
CSC Subtotal: $1,324,827 $2,650,000
Other Program Reserve $- $293,057
Venue Operations $- $500,000
Research and Innovation $595,257 $7,136,836
Projects $350,144 $1,633,224
Operations $1,235,674 $5,562,454
Other Subtotal: $2,181,075 $15,125,571
TOTAL $19,181,902 $97,555,452


Basically - Apline (zero medals), X country (zero medals) Bobsleigh (zero medals so far) should all go play in traffic.

Its almost pretty easy to see why we suck arse at ski jumping, but based on other sports choking results, the ski jumpers win in my books.

There was a 5X's increase in funding over the last 4 years and we stand not to match our Torino medal output. Did all this funding baby our athletes and make them soft? Based on results so far, it sure looks like it.

Can someone PLEASE explain what the funding for the Mens hockey team went to? I'm guessing all the meetings and scouting trips the management had done, and possibly the Calgary camp. I honestly believe that 1.4 mil number is a bit misleading. How can the OTP fund possibly benefit a bunch of millionaire hockey players?

So far - OTP = FAIL

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Stanley

Geez, you're really taking this hard eh?

No I'm not taking it hard but I'm finding it very hard to get excited when they say "A Canadian athlete is a medal hopefully" is up next like I was a few days ago. Just disappointing.

I wasn't expecting Canada to be first in the medal standings but with all the hype and medal favorites we were suppose to have I was expecting top 3, which I guess was just a silly dream to begin with.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by HOOT

No I'm not taking it hard but I'm finding it very hard to get excited when they say "A Canadian athlete is a medal hopefully" is up next like I was a few days ago. Just disappointing.

I wasn't expecting Canada to be first in the medal standings but with all the hype and medal favorites we were suppose to have I was expecting top 3, which I guess was just a silly dream to begin with.

Uh, aren't we tied for 4th with a week's worth left of events? The week in which we were expected to win more medals? I'd be very surprised if Canada isn't 3rd or better by the end of this week.

Either way, we're only 3 golds behind the US in the real standings. And we could easily end up with golds in men's and women's curling, women's hockey, and Ice Dance. That doesn't include all the speed skating relays, men's hockey, men's aerials and the snowboard giant slalom where we have as good a chance at gold as anyone.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by JayP

Uh, aren't we tied for 4th with a week's worth left of events? The week in which we were expected to win more medals? I'd be very surprised if Canada isn't 3rd or better by the end of this week.

Either way, we're only 3 golds behind the US in the real standings. And we could easily end up with golds in men's and women's curling, women's hockey, and Ice Dance. That doesn't include all the speed skating relays, men's hockey, men's aerials and the snowboard giant slalom where we have as good a chance at gold as anyone.

5th, 13 behind the USA in medal count. I'm not writing off that they could still be top 3 in the medal standings but the way I look at it without all these chokes last week the Canadians did have a great chance at finishing 1st for golds and medals but instead we are now hoping they can come close in just golds.

I blame all the money that was spent, hype on the television and just pure choke jobs by the Canadians which has made this a disappointment. If I just went into the games like every other games I wouldn't have been let down up until now.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Care to explain:

Norway (@ 13 medals, 4.8M pop)
Austria (@9 medals, 8.3M pop)
Switzerland (@7 medals, 7.7M pop)
Sweden (@7 medals, 9.3M pop)



Yes, Canada is not a top competitor due to our population

And Russia wants a word with you

Hmm, let's see nations that all excel in particular niche sports and pick up the vast majority of their medals in those disciplines. Pretty easy explanation really.

Norway: 6 X-country and 4 biathalon medals, both sports are highly covered and incredibly popular in Norway.

Austria: 3 Ski jumping, 2 Luge, 2 Alpine. Austria is a leader in all 3 sports and the nation actually cares about them. When they had yet to win any alpine medals heading into the weekend it was front page news as a disgrace to the country. Sounds familiar to us and hockey doesn't it?

Switzerland: 2 Ski Jumping, 2 Alpine. The Swiss welcome their star ski jumper home with massive crowds at the airport, he's a celebrity there. Like Austria there alpine history is well known.

Sweden: 5 X-country. Another Nordic nation that actually cares about X-country skiing.

So there's the explanation, small nations can always get to somewhere around the 10 medal number simply by virtue of their focus on a select few events that they excel in and that their nations generally care about.

[nik-]

It's sort of silly to call cross country skiing, ski jumping and alpine "niche" sports. Those are pretty classic Winter Olympic sports.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by HOOT

5th, 13 behind the USA in medal count. I'm not writing off that they could still be top 3 in the medal standings but the way I look at it without all these chokes last week the Canadians did have a great chance at finishing 1st for golds and medals but instead we are now hoping they can come close in just golds.

Tied for 4th with 9 medals.

The term choke is funny to me. Groves getting a silver in a race she should have won isn't a choke, but Leuders or Chan getting 5th and 6th in events where they had a chance at bronze at best is?

The rest of the world considers the gold medal count the real standings. If we all want to play the whole "Canada is okay with 2nd place" card and complain how unacceptable it is then why do we still look at the total medal count and not the gold medal count?

Looking at the events to come, Canada still is projected to bring home the most golds.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by JayP

Tied for 4th with 9 medals.

USA - 24
Germany - 21
Norway - 14
Russia - 10
Canada - 9

Regardless they have a lot of work to do and because the others chocked it puts more pressure on the other athletes, doesn't look good for Canada, but I hope I'm wrong.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by nik-

It's sort of silly to call cross country skiing, ski jumping and alpine "niche" sports. Those are pretty classic Winter Olympic sports.

Being a classic winter sport has nothing to do with being a niche sport, those are completely different concepts. What makes those niche sports is only a small segment of participating nations consider them as their premier Olympic sports.

[shadetree]

I think one of the main issues is that at a young age, most top athletes in this country are steered towards hockey. It's the most popular sport, it's the easiest to access top level coaching, and it provides the most likely avenues for success. Not to mention it's a lot of fun. I'm guessing most 15 year olds would rather play hockey than train solo for hours on end for cross-country skiing or speed skating.

I've always wondered how many top athletes chose to become hockey players (be it elite or journeymen in Europe) instead of toiling away in anonymity (with limited funding) in 'amateur' sports. I've got to imagine that under different circumstances, Jay Bouwmeester probably becomes a top level speed skater instead of a multimillionaire hockey player.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

And in Europe they play football (soccer); in US, basketball and football, etc, etc, etc.

In the nordic countries soccer isn't as big as in the rest of europe, I suspect it comes second to hockey.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by HOOT

USA - 24
Germany - 21
Norway - 14
Russia - 10
Canada - 9

Regardless they have a lot of work to do and because the others chocked it puts more pressure on the other athletes, doesn't look good for Canada, but I hope I'm wrong.

I really doubt that what other athletes did has any impact on how our athletes competing this week will do. They have a lot more important things to do in preparation for their events than scan the medal totals.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by shadetree

I think one of the main issues is that at a young age, most top athletes in this country are steered towards hockey. It's the most popular sport, it's the easiest to access top level coaching, and it provides the most likely avenues for success. Not to mention it's a lot of fun. I'm guessing most 15 year olds would rather play hockey than train solo for hours on end for cross-country skiing or speed skating.

I've always wondered how many top athletes chose to become hockey players (be it elite or journeymen in Europe) instead of toiling away in anonymity (with limited funding) in 'amateur' sports. I've got to imagine that under different circumstances, Jay Bouwmeester probably becomes a top level speed skater instead of a multimillionaire hockey player.

Well, there are all these guys who spend their whole youth training, are in great shape, have a good work ethic, and yet don't have the elements to put it all together and become NHL players. Maybe it's a guy who's powerful and fast but has hands of stone and a bad hockey sense, or maybe it's a guy who's fast and elusive but tiny. In order to get those guys into world-class speed-skaters by their prime, how early would you need to get them out of hockey and into speedskating? Would any boy (and his parents) actually say, "okay, I've got a 1 in a 1000 shot of being an NHL player, I'm going to switch to this sport where this organization thinks that they can turn me into a world-class athlete." Hard to get anyone to give up on their dreams, though.