Raptors 09/10 season thread

[octothorp]

I can totally respect that perspective, Ziggy. I'll try and respond to as many points as I can:

In last night's game, I'm taking it more in the context of the last three games, all in tough buildings where the Raptors have struggled a lot recently. They played another brutal first quarter, but they really battled the rest of the way. This team was trailing in offensive rebounds 8-2 midway though the second quarter, and by midway through the third, they were leading the stat 9-8. Those are the sorts of things that I was looking for that gave me not completely hate the effort last night; they also created a lot of open looks that they then missed; I can chalk that up to two high-altitude, fast tempo games on back-to-back nights. This team will usually thrive when they're creating those open looks like that.
On Bargs: had a really rough first quarter, but he first first and foremost in the hustle that brought the team back in the third.
On Bosh: It seems like he tends to pile up most of his stats in the first half while the rest of the team is lagging, and last night was typical where Bosh had close to 20 points by halftime and the team was still down by 9. It seems like the team usually really gets going in the third during Bosh's rest, and then on good nights, carry that over when Bosh gets back on the floor. I worry that the offense tries to hard to get Bosh his touches. There were at least three turnovers early last night that were the result of trying to feed Bosh inside when he wasn't open. And you're right, he had too many jumpers overall last night, but he also had some dominant inside moves. I'm not strictly opposed to trading him, but it's going to be hard to get the value back: if there was a deal based around a 3-5 lottery pick I'd certainly think Colangelo would need to listen, but most of the teams who are likely a fit for Bosh aren't in a position to offer a lottery pick. It would require a three/four team trade, which Colangelo is certainly capable of orchestrating. Still, I don't see any way that the Raptors get back a value similar to what Bosh is now.
DeRozan is definitely a project, but at the same time I think he's being intentionally brought along slowly, and I like the strategy of giving him backup minutes, but having them come with top linemates. When he's aggressive, he's a very good offensive rebounder. That alone is reason enough to be excited by him.
I'm not a fan of Jose's play, but I don't think you can second-guess trading Ford, given how little Ford has achieved since the trade. But Jack has been abysmal as a PG, and worse as a SG. The Raptors have had zero success in the Jose/Jack combo that Triano has tried. Last night, Jack just came in, commited some bad fouls, took the ball to the lane and gave it away when he had open players. The thing that the Raptors have not had in a decade is a PG who can drive and make decisions on the fly; Calderon or Jack or even Ford or Alston or the host of other unremarkable PGs we've had on this team all lack the ability to drive the ball, detect where the extra pressure is coming from, and then instantly find the open man beyond that pressure. Turkoglu is actually the best player on the team at doing that. Although since tweaking his hip he's settled too much for jump shots.
I think this team has the ability to play a very effective high low game based around the inside/outside ability that all of Bosh, Turkoglu and Bargnani possess. They just aren't doing it yet. In order for this team to be successful, they need to make the other team's big men work hard, and that can best be done with a combination of stretching them and banging them.
I'm probably a glass-half-full fan in most respects, but 5-7 is right on the pace that I predicted they would start the year. Pretty much every game they've played has had at least one really good and one really bad quarter, which makes it very difficult to assess the real identity of this team. I'm prepared to give them a few more weeks to really get their game together.
I don't think the problem is with Bosh or the big men, though; I think this lineup would be fantastic with a truly creative PG who can also play defense. If I'm Colangelo, that's what I would be scouting for right now.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Originally Posted by octothorp

I think this team has the ability to play a very effective high low game based around the inside/outside ability that all of Bosh, Turkoglu and Bargnani possess. They just aren't doing it yet. In order for this team to be successful, they need to make the other team's big men work hard, and that can best be done with a combination of stretching them and banging them.
I'm probably a glass-half-full fan in most respects, but 5-7 is right on the pace that I predicted they would start the year. Pretty much every game they've played has had at least one really good and one really bad quarter, which makes it very difficult to assess the real identity of this team. I'm prepared to give them a few more weeks to really get their game together.
I don't think the problem is with Bosh or the big men, though; I think this lineup would be fantastic with a truly creative PG who can also play defense. If I'm Colangelo, that's what I would be scouting for right now.

Awesome response, last night when i went on that emotion filled tirade I was rash in my projections. I believe that a few more weeks is what we need to truly asses them. I am giving the flames this luxury so why not the raps?

I also agree with your sentiments, partially, about our hi-lo game potential. I feel if they committed to a points in the paint philosophy then more teams would game plan for that instead of their current trends. But, it has to start with your leader. I didn't feel that bosh was working to change the minds of the officials in the west. Sure he would have a couple of nice inside moves, but I noticed a lot of his inside stuff had him fading away from the hoop on the shot attempt: hook, turnaround. That type of interior offense won't endear you to any official, save for Bavetta(my fav). Look what Booze was doing! He was taking at every defender. If Bosh had his feet set, they gave booze the benefit of the doubt. That type of favoring is because of the trends of the style he plays. I noticed that utah took long "open" jumpers. They were open because the Raps were retreating and trying to clog the lane. The only way to earn respect from the officials, as i've ascertained through the years, is by recklessly driving the lane time after time, or by playing tough defense possession after possession.

About the value for Bosh, that's what I was thinking as well. The teams that would want Bosh don't have the warez to get the deal done, so a three or four team trade would have to be orchestrated. Either that or, just ask for future first rounders from a team like cleveland that aren't lottery protected. Why? well, If Lebron signs a big deal I don't think It will be with Cleveland. He has stated that he necessarily doesn't want max money on his next contract, because that means he knows the cap prevents teams with those contracts from assembling the right supporting cast for their max money guy. Cleveland only seems like an attractive option to other FA when lebron is signed long term and for a reasonable deal. I don't see him doing this. I could see him in Mia with Wade or in NY with Bosh and whoever else follows. NY has set themselves up for a lot of cap space for this FA class and that has to count for something.

Thus, I will give TO a little more time before I label them a soft-jump shooter squad, but they are running out of time in my books.

PS, capital response Oc. Go Raps

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by octothorp

He posted on his twitter last week that it would be another two weeks... that's the most recent update I've heard, and that might be just optimism on his part.

Reggie Evans update: Sounds like they're being extremely cautious with his injury, out of fear of risking a more serious injury. I don't think we'll see him until after Christmas.


http://www.thestar.com/sports/basket...nsive-problems

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Reggie Evans update: Sounds like they're being extremely cautious with his injury, out of fear of risking a more serious injury. I don't think we'll see him until after Christmas.


http://www.thestar.com/sports/basket...nsive-problems

That's no problem. I'd prefer them to be safe than sorry. They need him badly IMO, but not enough to rush him this early.

As for the game tonight, it's a must win for their team confidence. Indiana is such a crap-ass team, that they just have to win. Granger can't do everything for them and it's going to be almost impossible for Indiana to win, so the Raps better pull it off.

[Gozer]

Hopefully playing his old teammate fires up Calderon a bit.

Seeing any kind of defense from the guy would be a relief.

[Machiavelli]

Quite the offensive explosion in the first half.

[octothorp]

74 points before half and Bosh and Bargs have only 6 each? That's nuts.

[Machiavelli]

Looks like the Jays are having their characteristic meltdown per game.

[bluejays]

Well, they won, which I can't complain about, but letting a team like that comeback isn't a good thing. I'll leave the bitchin to another day.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by fleury

Well, they won, which I can't complain about, but letting a team like that comeback isn't a good thing. I'll leave the bitchin to another day.

Yeah, after Indiana was able to get it down to ten or so, the Raptors responded every time Indiana made a push, but there's no way the Raptors should be letting a team like Indiana have a 59 point second half. I would have liked to see the Raptors focus on defense and try to limit the Pacers to less than 100. A twenty point lead at halftime against a weak team means an excellent opportunity to work on the things that they're weak at. Instead, they just traded open look for open look during the most of the second half.

I liked after the Clippers game how Calderon said that they had a conscious goal of trying to limit the Clippers to less than their season average in offense, which was 90. I'd like this team to take that as a goal whenever they've got the game in hand: decide that you're going to limit the opposition to less than their season average. Use the shot clock to shorten the number of possessions and shorten the game. Instead, by shooting early in the shot clock, they gave the Pacers more possessions and increased the likelihood of the Pacers starting to get hot.

[Machiavelli]

Not a good defensive effort right now against the 'Cats.

Evans can't heal up soon enough.

[octothorp]

Holy crap, I'm glad I forgot that they were playing tonight.

[bluejays]

I forgot they played as well, but the boxscore tells enough of the story. One of the most embarrassing games in Raptor history. Glad I missed it.

[flames_1987]

No leadership

[I wanna be like Miikka]

How can a team be THIS bad at Defence. Amazing to give up so many points to such a terrible NBA team. So frustrating as a Raptor fan.

[Sinatra]

I told my friend that her dad sucks at coaching. Fire Triano.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Sinatra

I told my friend that her dad sucks at coaching. Fire Triano.

Do you really think it's Triano? They didn't play defence under Mitchell, they're not playing it under Triano. I think it's all about the lazy players...starting with Bargnani. When the guy wants to play, he's unstoppable. He's bulky enough to be a force, but he's a lazy bum who settles for the 3 or jump shot everytime. Hedo has been clutch which is what the team needs, but he hasn't been determined to take it to the basket either. So far there are probably only 4 players who play hard each and every night on the Raps. Bosh, Johnson, Bellanelli, and Jack (in that order). The rest really need to step it up and play more aggressive (especially Calderone who's done nothing notable this year).

[bluejays]

On another note, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'd actually kinda like to see what Iverson could do on this team. I wouldn't have him running the point or anything, but I'd certainly put him in the SG position, with Jack and Calderone alternating at the PG. He's a baby yeah, but they need players who give it their all on the court, and you can't complain about Iverson that way.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by fleury

Do you really think it's Triano? They didn't play defence under Mitchell, they're not playing it under Triano. I think it's all about the lazy players...starting with Bargnani. When the guy wants to play, he's unstoppable. He's bulky enough to be a force, but he's a lazy bum who settles for the 3 or jump shot everytime. Hedo has been clutch which is what the team needs, but he hasn't been determined to take it to the basket either. So far there are probably only 4 players who play hard each and every night on the Raps. Bosh, Johnson, Bellanelli, and Jack (in that order). The rest really need to step it up and play more aggressive (especially Calderone who's done nothing notable this year).

It's not coaching or laziness, IMO, it's just the team's skill-set.

Our starting frontcourt has one finesse high post player and two heavy-footed jump shooters. Throw in a PG that doesn't play defense and a rookie SG - what's a coach to do?

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by fleury

On another note, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'd actually kinda like to see what Iverson could do on this team. I wouldn't have him running the point or anything, but I'd certainly put him in the SG position, with Jack and Calderone alternating at the PG. He's a baby yeah, but they need players who give it their all on the court, and you can't complain about Iverson that way.

He would fit perfectly on the team, dominates the ball, inactive without it, streaky, lacks fundamental defense - he would fit right in.