Ongoing Calgarians complaining about pedestrian bridges thread

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Well, this thread went to crap in a hurry.

My bad

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Obviously not. The Inner City lovers do nothing but demean anyone living in the suburbs. How can anything they say be objective with that kind of a mindset?

(P.S. I used to live in the Inner City and enjoyed my time there... but I enjoy my time so much more in the Suburbs)

I felt my statement was pretty objective, being a big supporter of the ring road and of this bridge among.

I'm in the opposite situation of you, I was in the suburbs, but made the decision to live closer to work (I find driving to take transit not a satisfactory solution and a 45 minute commute time not appealing) and somewhere with a bunch of shops/restaurants within walking distance.

Granted if I was a guy with a young family I'm sure I'd love the fact I could get way more space for my money and not have to worry about hobos spray painting my children if I was living further out in the city.

Different things are better for different people. I just don't happen to be so selfish that because I won't use a particular bridge/overpass/LRT line that I think it shouldn't be built, which is the attitude of many in here.

Good for you that you don't go downtown. Over 200,000 people do 5 days a week minimum.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Well, this thread went to crap in a hurry.

who is that in your avatar?

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Then hire different elected officials. You know, ones that will implement a property taxation that you think is fair.

As it is, based on the precise reasons that you like downtown you keep exhuming, demand for property inner city is apparently far more than than demand for property in the suburbs. Couple that with limited supply, and your property values are far higher than those in outlying areas.

What is your solution?

I kind of agree with this. I don't think too many people flee to the suburbs because of the property tax they will be paying. Sure, it's a nice bonus, but the prohibitive part of living in the inner city is that it is so freaking expensive to get anything decent.

This is a good problem to have though, much better than Detroit or St. Louis where it is very, very cheap to get something downtown.

[Homer_J]

We went through the same thing in Winnipeg a few years ago. People were outraged at the cost of the new pedestrian bridge connecting Old St. Boniface with the Forks. The Mayor wanted a restaurant in the middle of the bridge which was going to cost the city an extra $1million for the plumbing. It was headline news for a long time.

Now I think most people have forgotten the cost and appreciate the bridge. It's a beautiful structure that's become a landmark for the city. I always see tourists out there in the summer taking their picture by the bridge. I can't imagine if they had just built another concrete slab across the river.

No one remembers that awesome interchange they drove over or that funky neighborhood where all the houses looked the same. These landmarks are what make our cities unique and interesting.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Pastiche

I don't demean people who live in the suburbs beyond the fact that they don't pay their share. I believe in free choice, by all means live where you want. I just don't want to pay for it.

When suburb living isn't subsidized we'll see how many people really want to live out there and how much infrastructure we actually need to support he suburbs. Right now it's just way out of balance with denser neighbourhoods being starved.

Pay their share? How do you figure out what a person's share is?

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Homer_J

We went through the same thing in Winnipeg a few years ago. People were outraged at the cost of the new pedestrian bridge connecting Old St. Boniface with the Forks. The Mayor wanted a restaurant in the middle of the bridge which was going to cost the city an extra $1million for the plumbing. It was headline news for a long time.

Now I think most people have forgotten the cost and appreciate the bridge. It's a beautiful structure that's become a landmark for the city. I always see tourists out there in the summer taking their picture by the bridge. I can't imagine if they had just built another concrete slab across the river.

No one remembers that awesome interchange they drove over or that funky neighborhood where all the houses looked the same. These landmarks are what make our cities unique and interesting.

Yep... many a time I've thought..... man, I should go to Winnipeg to visit that bridge.
I'm sure once we get this wonderful bridge built, the same thing will happen with people contemplating visiting Calgary.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Yep... many a time I've thought..... man, I should go to Winnipeg to visit that bridge.

keep thinking small.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by nik-

keep thinking small.

... just like my bank account because of the 5% increase in city taxes this year.

I'm all for building a pedestrian bridge if its needed... just not spending like money grows on trees to build it

Edit: Actually, now that I'm moving to Okotoks in August, I really don't care how Calgary wastes the taxes it gets from its taxpayers. Its your problem now.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Yep... many a time I've thought..... man, I should go to Winnipeg to visit that bridge.
I'm sure once we get this wonderful bridge built, the same thing will happen with people contemplating visiting Calgary.

Good point. Do you want to go on vacation to Winnipeg? Probably not.

Do people go on vacation to Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, or Quebec city? Quite a bit.

You have to start somewhere to become a city worth visiting. Or you can ignore this aspect of your city and become Detroit. Even when there was money there, no one would go near downtown.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

You're missing out on one of the crown jewels of our city if you've never been to Prince's Island. You've also probably never been bothered to explore any number of the other excellent interesting inner city areas that are peppered throughout our "downtown" (Historic downtown sites, the Glenbow Museum, Eau Claire, Inglewood, Bridgeland, Kensington(Hillhurst/Sunnyside), 17th Ave, 11th Ave, 4th Street, Mt Royal, Sunalta, Crescent Heights, Rosedale, Point McKay, Edworthy Park, Sandy Beach, etc).

Put words in my mouth why don't you.

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

You're also obviously someone who is opposed to this bridge.

I'm not opposed to the bridge. I'm opposed to spending THAT MUCH on the bridge. I'm opposed to it being a work of art rather than a nice looking functional bridge.

I'm just as opposed to the nice fish on the Glenmore/Elbow/Macleod underpass.. What a waste of money.

I'll be just as opposed if something artsy is on the new Stoney bridges too.

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

I shudder to think about the mental and emotional viewpoint that someone of your experience has of Calgary. Honestly, if your entire time in Calgary has been limited to the extremely generic outskirts of our town, you might as well be living in Anytown, North America and that is probably exactly how you feel about Calgary.

I'm a born and raised Calgarian and I am interested in what it is going to take to make my city vibrant and sustainable; also in what it is going to take to make it an attractive, pleasant place to live and visit.

Good for you.

As someone who is ALSO a born and raised Calgarian, I am also interested in making my city the best it can be. Good transportation around the city is essential. A work of art is not.

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

90% of the people that I interact with on a daily basis are transplants in this town and are so quick to spit on what a terrible place this is (and getting worse!), and how they're moving "back home" as soon as they have enough money.

Have you stopped to ask them what is so terrible? 90% of the people I talk to complain about the horrible traffic. They complain about the ty roads. They don't complain about a lack of art, a lack of special looking buildings, etc.

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

The same thing is going on with Plan It... so much effort is going into creating options for our city, towards reducing long run development costs (economic and other wise), yet there is an outcry by a majority who don't understand the impact their lifestyle has on the long term viability of Calgary, nor do they care. Its brutal.

See that's where I completely disagree. Plan It seems to have a mandate to make the city another Toronto or another Vancouver. It, and those running it, doesn't seem to understand that a large portion of people who live here now come from Saskatchewan or other rural areas. They are being forced to move to "the big city" but choose Calgary because it doesn't have the "big city feel". It isn't building upon building stretching as high as the eye can see. It allows those people, who are used to having acres of land available to them, to have a sense of space while giving them none. Do you think that those people would move here to live in a 20 story apartment building? Hell no. They're making a huge sacrifice to move into a 1600 sq ft home with a back yard...and yet they're being crapped on for it. Screw that.

Those of you who want the high-density life can enjoy it... but don't force it on the rest of us. Having lived in downtown Calgary, I've learned that the lifestyle isn't for me. I'm quite happy living, working, shopping in the suburbs and all of the traffic nightmare that comes with it. Judging from the demand, I'm not alone and in by far the majority in this city.

Originally Posted by Pastiche

Troll?

Comparing when I joined CP and when you did, you don't really have a leg to stand on.

[MarchHare]

See that's where I completely disagree. Plan It seems to have a mandate to make the city another Toronto or another Vancouver. It, and those running it, doesn't seem to understand that a large portion of people who live here now come from Saskatchewan or other rural areas. They are being forced to move to "the big city" but choose Calgary because it doesn't have the "big city feel". It isn't building upon building stretching as high as the eye can see. It allows those people, who are used to having acres of land available to them, to have a sense of space while giving them none. Do you think that those people would move here to live in a 20 story apartment building? Hell no. They're making a huge sacrifice to move into a 1600 sq ft home with a back yard...and yet they're being crapped on for it. Screw that.

You seem to have quite the mistaken notion of what exactly Plan It aims to accomplish. The big bad city isn't going to take away your nice suburban single family detached home. That option will still be there for people who want that lifestyle. Plan It is about increasing the amount of high-density housing near transit hubs and attempting to make communities more "walkable", reducing the necessity of driving just about everywhere.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Rerun

... just like my bank account because of the 5% increase in city taxes this year.

I'm all for building a pedestrian bridge if its needed... just not spending like money grows on trees to build it

Edit: Actually, now that I'm moving to Okotoks in August, I really don't care how Calgary wastes the taxes it gets from its taxpayers. Its your problem now.

oh for the love of god. Do you just copy reader comments from the Calgary Herald website and post them here as your opinions?

haha jesus man, you're like a cliched whining taxpayer soundbite.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

You seem to have quite the mistaken notion of what exactly Plan It aims to accomplish. The big bad city isn't going to take away your nice suburban single family detached home. That option will still be there for people who want that lifestyle. Plan It is about increasing the amount of high-density housing near transit hubs and attempting to make communities more "walkable", reducing the necessity of driving just about everywhere.

All I ever hear is "higher density, here, there, and everywhere".

I combine that with their desires to put high-rise (5+ story) condos, quad-plexes, etc in new developments, and I completely question what you just said.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Rerun

... just like my bank account because of the 5% increase in city taxes this year.

I'm all for building a pedestrian bridge if its needed... just not spending like money grows on trees to build it

Edit: Actually, now that I'm moving to Okotoks in August, I really don't care how Calgary wastes the taxes it gets from its taxpayers. Its your problem now.

Jeebus Christ. Can you read? This bridge is coming from Provincial money already budgeted for it.

How do you feel about other public works projects in the City like River Walk or the Science Centre that cost a tonne more money than the bridge?

Those aren't on your radar yet because they haven't made the 'things to complain about so you may sound like you know what you are talking about' section of the Calgary Sun

People complained when the Centre St Bridge was constructed.

They complained about the C-Train when it was being built.

Would we be better off and awash with cash had these project's not gone ahead?

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Yep... many a time I've thought..... man, I should go to Winnipeg to visit that bridge.
I'm sure once we get this wonderful bridge built, the same thing will happen with people contemplating visiting Calgary.

Well, most won't go to Winnipeg for the bridge, but will go to the bridge while in Winnipeg. I went there back about 18 months ago in the dead of winter and it was near the top of the list of things I wanted to go check out. It also actually helped start change my perception of Winnipeg as a city that actually has started to give a damn about itself and is worth caring about. The human rights museum, a fabulous architectural landmark is going up right near the bridge, they have put great effort into improving their waterfront "forks" area. All these moves accumulate to improve the liveability of the city for those that are there, and improve the attractiveness and perception of the city for those that visit it.

The bridge alone in Calgary won't change Calgary's perception as a rather banal city architecturally or culturally, but it will help. Combined with more intensification and growth of downtown neighbourhoods, a new library, Cantos, the expansion/renovation of the Epcor Centre, buildings like the Bow, Riverwalk, improved parks and plazas and so forth this will add up to Calgary being a much, much better city to live in and visit.

[Pastiche]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Pay their share? How do you figure out what a person's share is?

Well first off your property taxes charge amortized over some period the full cost of installing sewer and power to your subdivision.

Second, using transit models a portion of those big overpasses and roads that are built to service your subdivision is passed onto the homeowner through a surcharge. Or, as has been used in numerous other cities, the highway that you use to commute into work is converted to a toll highway internalizing the cost of the road and services required for you to live out there. This isn't radical stuff. Many municipalities have already implemented these kind of incentives and they are only gaining in popularity.

The basic idea is that once something is subsidized it becomes overused. Suburban living is a very good example of that.

As you say, you are a guy who likes living out in the country. That's just great, I respect that and one day I would like to do the same. However, you should be responsible for the full-costs of that priviledge, that includes the roads you use and the utilities you require (among other things).

e.g. Garbage disposal is also much more expensive for sprawling neighbourhoods so your garbage fees would be higher etc.

Once the true cost of living out there is borne by the people who live out there then we'll rebalance and see how demanded suburban living is and apportion public funds to those areas based on the share.

[North East Goon]

Let's make the next drivable bridge into downtown a corkscrew design as well. Something where you have to travel north of 180 km's/hr just to survive it, now that would bring in thrill seeking tourists! I guess this idea would work better with a C-Train bridge at high speeds going in a corkscrew pattern. It would be like getting a free Disneyland ride into work everyday.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by nik-

oh for the love of god. Do you just copy reader comments from the Calgary Herald website and post them here as your opinions?

haha jesus man, you're like a cliched whining taxpayer soundbite.

Very helpful comment. Attack the responder instead of the response.
Do you want to start calling me names too?

[Pastiche]

As an Ontarian I feel that I can offer my valuable insight to the Canada's frontier hinterlands. What with my ways as living in a functioning urban environment at the center of Canada's industrial and cultural traunch, I feel qualified to dictate to you westerners a sense of best-practices and other methods in order to properly live your lives.

Now caring on.