Board to decide bus beheader's fate

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Mike F

If I'm driving by a park and suffer a stroke that causes me to slump forward, push on the gas, and plow through a group of kids, should I be locked up forever (assuming I survive) to appease the victims' parents? Plowing a car through a park and running over kids is a pretty reprehensible act, so lets ignore the fact that a medical even left me helpless to prevent it?

You won't be allowed to drive a car anymore, and if it was determined you chose not to take medication, or were already banned from driving, you will likely serve time. This has already been covered in this thread.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Calling someone ignorant is not the same as calling someone names. He was calling you ignorant in terms of your comments relating to this discussion and explained why he thinks you're ignorant. That's not even close to name calling.

Yes it is, and to be honest you would have to be pretty ignorant not to think calling someone ignorant is not meant to be an insult. Twist it all you want, debating the issue of jail etc. for the mentally ill is perfectly reasonable, calling someone ignorant for disagreeing with you is not reasonable.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

You won't be allowed to drive a car anymore, and if it was determined you chose not to take medication, or were already banned from driving, you will likely serve time. This has already been covered in this thread.

But you wouldn't lock me up forever.

Same with this guy: prevent him from becoming a danger again by insisting that he have supervision that ensures he stays on his medication, but don't go beyond that simply to appease the victim's family.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Yes it is, and to be honest you would have to be pretty ignorant not to think calling someone ignorant is not meant to be an insult. Twist it all you want, debating the issue of jail etc. for the mentally ill is perfectly reasonable, calling someone ignorant for disagreeing with you is not reasonable.

Fair enough, but I'd like to know what the mods think of it, because in my eyes, calling someone ignorant on a particular subject and then going into detail why they believe you're being ignorant isn't even close to name calling.

If he had just said "you're ignorant", and left it at that, then I'd agree it was out of line. But in the context of the point he was making about your line of thinking, he felt ignorant was the appropriate term. He didn't seem like he was going "I want to call this guy a name, so I'll call him ignorant".

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I never suggested no treatment.

You said you cared more about public safety and than so called treatment. His treatment is giving you that public safety.

And why should I care? There is a chance he can commit another crime, and has lost his shot at freedom, in my opinion. For that reason, he can stay locked up.

I'm not suggesting that anyone should care. An understanding of why a hospital for the criminaly insane is the best option as opposed to prison was the point I was trying to make. The reports say he's been a model patient and has posed no threat to staff or other patients. That tells me the interest of public safety is being served quite well.

Cool story, I think you could not have stated my case any better. Sorry about your friend, as you may know mental illness is something that most of us have had to deal with either with ourselves, friends or family. The fact I have experience with this type of thing with those around me does not make me ignorant. This man should be locked away.

Someone I know having this illness and comitting suicide is NOT a cool story. The point of me posting that is to show that treatment can make a schizophrenic a non threat to public safety. That doesn't mean he should be released.

Ignorance comes from you suggesting he be locked in a jail where he's not going to get the proper treatment.

Put him in a prison for the mentally ill, I really don't care, as long as he is not free. And you did call someone ignorant, in more than one post, so yah you are calling people names.

He's not a free man and I highly doubt he will ever get full parole. We have nothing in place to assure us that if Li was given full unescorted parole that he would continue to take his medication. The probablity is high that he would stop his meds and reoffend. He will be a patient of that hospital for the rest of his life.

[krynski]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Yes it is, and to be honest you would have to be pretty ignorant not to think calling someone ignorant is not meant to be an insult. Twist it all you want, debating the issue of jail etc. for the mentally ill is perfectly reasonable, calling someone ignorant for disagreeing with you is not reasonable.

It's ignorant to take offense to a word that one is too ignorant to look up in the dictionary. It's not an insult. It's merely stating that one has not done their research (or is ill prepared) to comment on something.

Edit: holy derail batman

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Dion

Someone I know having this illness and comitting suicide is NOT a cool story. The point of me posting that is to show that treatment can make a schizophrenic a non threat to public safety. That doesn't mean he should be released.Ignorance comes from you suggesting he be locked in a jail where he's not going to get the proper treatment.

Your friend was alive while incarcerated/in a hospital. They released him and he killed himself. I think you are proving my point - there is no cure.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Fair enough, but I'd like to know what the mods think of it, because in my eyes, calling someone ignorant on a particular subject and then going into detail why they believe you're being ignorant isn't even close to name calling.

Perhaps if you had any details to base your beliefs, than yah. But you actually just assumed you knew, and you didn't.

[krynski]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Your friend was alive while incarcerated/in a hospital. They released him and he killed himself. I think you are proving my point - there is no cure.

That is insensitive and rude. You probably don't know this because your background in psychological matters is zero to none- and it shows. He probably killed himself because he was depressed. People experiencing psychotic episodes generally don't kill themselves. He was likely medicated and was experiencing a major depressive episode because his psychotic episode had likely affected his life negatively. People that are schizophrenic are likely to be comorbidly diagnosed with major depressive disorder.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Your friend was alive while incarcerated/in a hospital. They released him and he killed himself. I think you are proving my point - there is no cure.

I knew a guy who thought he could hear voices thru his glasses, but after he got on the right medication, that went away. So my anecdote completely invalidates your point, unless we don't accept anecdotes as evidence, in which case you are also wrong.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by valo403

Umm no, the difference being that someone swinging a bike chain at you is presenting threat.

Personally I think I would find the blood covered loon refusing to drop the hunting knife while eating the eyeballs out of the bloody decapitated head of his last victim somewahat more of a threat than a guy with a bike chain, but each to his own I suppose.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Your friend was alive while incarcerated/in a hospital. They released him and he killed himself. I think you are proving my point - there is no cure.

You have proved nothing. He was released because he was still living at home and his parents were around to make sure he took his medications. He killed himself because he realised he couldn't have back the life he had before he developed schizophrenia. He wasn't willing to accept that he would have to take medication for the rest of his life and the not so nice side effects that went along with it. I regret not acting on his comments and feel I could have prevented his suicide.

There are countless schizophrenics in this world working 9-5 jobs and supporting themselves. Medication to treat this illness has gotten alot better since my friend killed himself.

[krynski]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Personally I think I would find the blood covered loon refusing to drop the hunting knife while eating the eyeballs out of the bloody decapitated head of his last victim somewahat more of a threat than a guy with a bike chain, but each to his own I suppose.

T hey are both pretty bad. I think the chain thing would be more fearful, and the cannibalism and murder more traumatic. I suppose it depends on the situation. If someone was running after me with a hunting knife or a chain, they would probably be equally fear inducing.

[krynski]

Originally Posted by Dion

You have proved nothing. He was released because he was still living at home and his parents were around to make sure he took his medications. He killed himself because he realised he couldn't have back the life he had before he developed schizophrenia. He wasn't willing to accept that he would have to take medication for the rest of his life and the not so nice side effects that went along with it. I regret not acting on his comments and feel I could have prevented his suicide.

There are countless schizophrenics in this world working 9-5 jobs and supporting themselves. Medication to treat this illness has gotten alot better since my friend killed himself.

I'm sorry to hear this, it must have been absolutely terrible. One of my friends was experiencing a major depressive episode during a bipolar low a few years ago. Bipolar low depression is usually worse than major depressive disorder episodes. It was awful, and he attempted suicide. I am truly very happy he did not succeed.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by krynski

I'm sorry to hear this, it must have been absolutely terrible. One of my friends was experiencing a major depressive episode during a bipolar low a few years ago. Bipolar low depression is usually worse than major depressive disorder episodes. It was awful, and he attempted suicide. I am truly very happy he did not succeed.

I was very ignorant about mentall illness at the time. It never occured to me that he was contemplating suicide and that's the part that haunts me.

I hope your friend is getting all the treatment he or she needs. A parent should never have to bury thier son or daughter. It rips the family apart.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Your friend was alive while incarcerated/in a hospital. They released him and he killed himself. I think you are proving my point - there is no cure.

How does that prove your point? What a god damn insensitive and downright stupid post.

[krynski]

Originally Posted by Dion

I was very ignorant about mentall illness at the time. It never occured to me that he was contemplating suicide and that's the part that haunts me.

I hope your friend is getting all the treatment he or she needs. A parent should never have to bury thier son or daughter. It rips the family apart.

Yeah. I think he should be fine for a while. His psychiatrist made a judgement error and modified his meds. He then went into a depression, which was when his attempt occurred . it was followed by a manic episode, complemented with light psychosis. Basically, he spent huge amounts of money, lost his job, and over-invested himself with multitudes of projects.

Hes been good for a while. Family and friends have stepped up for support. His psychiatrist doesn't think he has the capacity for a 9-5. It's a bit disappointing as he wastes his education and professional experience.

I think that bipolar and schizophrenia with major depression must be extremely terrible combinations. One would have to deal with the mistakes made during manic and/or psychotic episodes.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by krynski

T hey are both pretty bad. I think the chain thing would be more fearful, and the cannibalism and murder more traumatic. I suppose it depends on the situation. If someone was running after me with a hunting knife or a chain, they would probably be equally fear inducing.

I think if I was a cop with a gun, a bulletproof vest and helmet the bike chain would be considerably less of a threat under any circumstances than a hunting knife.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Personally I think I would find the blood covered loon refusing to drop the hunting knife while eating the eyeballs out of the bloody decapitated head of his last victim somewahat more of a threat than a guy with a bike chain, but each to his own I suppose.

I would have shot him and claimed traumatic stress made me do it.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by T@T

I would have shot him and claimed traumatic stress made me do it.

So what you're saying is that if you were a cop, you would have murdered another human being and then lied under oath? Wonderful.

From reading a lot of posts on CP when it comes to police tactics and punishment ideas, all I can say is I'm damn happy that a lot of you picked different professions.