Schools Req'd to notify parents before teaching evolution

[Thor]

Its also a slippery slope we're dealing with here.

There is an argument to be made that teaching our kids the age of the earth to be 4.5 billion years old is against the parents religious beliefs. So do teachers have to send a note to the parent for that?

This topic has been creeping up slowly in Texas, does this bill in Alberta allow young earth creationists to hold their kids from class when the age of the earth is discussed?

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Thor

Its also a slippery slope we're dealing with here.

There is an argument to be made that teaching our kids the age of the earth to be 4.5 billion years old is against the parents religious beliefs. So do teachers have to send a note to the parent for that?

This topic has been creeping up slowly in Texas, does this bill in Alberta allow young earth creationists to hold their kids from class when the age of the earth is discussed?

Honestly,

It was never even in the curriculum. There is just some much science to teach you can't fit it in. And by grade 9 everyone is allowed to walk out any time they want.

[simonsays]

I personally see a huge difference between teaching the basics of reading and maths to the basics of evolution. The first 2 are skills, while the third is a theory based on a different skill. That being said, I have absolutely no problem with schools teaching the best theory available in any discipline. And lets face it, evolution is the only theory that we have that withstands all the tests that we've thrown at it.

Yes, it changes over time. Any good scientific theory should be able to do that without the foundation falling out. In fact one of the best things about taking evolution in school is that you can teach not only its theories, but the entire scientific method at once.

I tend to believe that we send our kids to school for two reasons. 1) to learn the basic skills that are required in our society, and 2) to learn how to think for themselves. I can't really see any reason to allow parents to withdraw their kids from certain areas of schooling just because they don't believe in that particular theory, because while their kids might still be learning their skills they certainly aren't going to be able to think for themselves if all the info they ever encounter falls perfectly into step.

It makes me wonder why teaching evolution is so dangerous.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by photon

The downside is that it's an administrative nightmare, and undermines the system. There's no way to enforce it. There's no way to even notify parents.. sure they can tell them when the evolution section is coming up, but what if its brought up in class? Pull the fire alarm? Ask Billy to leave so it can be discussed? And it opens the door for parents to pull kids out for everything. Why should you be allowed to opt out of evolution when I can't take my kids out of learning about World War II because I'm a conscious objector (or because I'm a holocaust denier)?

What is wrong with learning about something you don't believe?

It is not an administrative nightmare. You notify parents by letter sent home with the child whenever an evolution section comes up. If a question comes up in class otherwise, the teacher answers it. I'm sure the child will survive without leaving the room.

Parents do write letters to excuse little Johnny or Jane from certain school activities. Why make this a bigger issue than it is? The reason why the Alberta government signaled out evolution and sex education is because these are issues with a significant amount of parents. Your elected representatives decided to respect the wishes of these parents. The result will be that more of these kids will remain in public school.

So what's your solution? Keep these children isolated from public school if their parents won't knuckle under or better still have their parents arrested for child abuse?

[photon]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

It is not an administrative nightmare. You notify parents by letter sent home with the child whenever an evolution section comes up. If a question comes up in class otherwise, the teacher answers it. I'm sure the child will survive without leaving the room.

So I want to keep my kid out of social when WWII comes up, how do I get that letter? Either you allow an infinite # of letters for an infinite # of subjects, or you allow nothing.

At the very least it should be up to the parents to keep track of what's taught when, then they can inform the teachers when they'll be huddling in their basement in fear in case their kid hears something objectionable.

How many different sets of homework, quizes, and exams will teachers have to make to compensate for students that are excused? Cause an exam with evolution on it is still exposure to evolution.

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Parents do write letters to excuse little Johnny or Jane from certain school activities. Why make this a bigger issue than it is? The reason why the Alberta government signaled out evolution and sex education is because these are issues with a significant amount of parents. Your elected representatives decided to respect the wishes of these parents. The result will be that more of these kids will remain in public school.

More kids remaining in schools isn't a worthy goal in and of itself unless they are getting a good education.

So where do you draw the line (it's been asked multiple times)? How many parents have to object before the topic can be treated this way?

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

So what's your solution? Keep these children isolated from public school if their parents won't knuckle under or better still have their parents arrested for child abuse?

My solution is to leave it the way it is.. if parents want to tell their kids that what they learned at school is bunk, then let them. If kids want to criticize evolution, shouldn't they at least understand what it says??

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by photon

So I want to keep my kid out of social when WWII comes up, how do I get that letter? Either you allow an infinite # of letters for an infinite # of subjects, or you allow nothing.

At the very least it should be up to the parents to keep track of what's taught when, then they can inform the teachers when they'll be huddling in their basement in fear in case their kid hears something objectionable.

How many different sets of homework, quizes, and exams will teachers have to make to compensate for students that are excused? Cause an exam with evolution on it is still exposure to evolution.



More kids remaining in schools isn't a worthy goal in and of itself unless they are getting a good education.

So where do you draw the line (it's been asked multiple times)? How many parents have to object before the topic can be treated this way?



My solution is to leave it the way it is.. if parents want to tell their kids that what they learned at school is bunk, then let them. If kids want to criticize evolution, shouldn't they at least understand what it says??

You are an onry cuss sometimes. The line has been drawn at evolution and sex ed because there is significant numbers of parents who have concern about these areas. World War II didn't make the grade because there are few or no parents who have issues with that material. Nothing else did either.

[onetwo_threefour]

nm

[onetwo_threefour]

I think this thread is a perfect example of why the decision shouldn't be left up to individual parents.

When the parents don't understand the topic themselves they are far more likely to make poor decisions about the need for their child to be exposed to it.

It's a lot like Tower and his parking tickets, some people simply can't assimilate evidence and viewpoints that don't fit in with their preconceptions.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

You are an onry cuss sometimes. The line has been drawn at evolution and sex ed because there is significant numbers of parents who have concern about these areas. World War II didn't make the grade because there are few or no parents who have issues with that material. Nothing else did either.

Photon is about the most level headed guy on CP, and believe me if he wasn't the one responding to your comments meaner posters would have.

Just curious, why are these parents afraid of evolution, is it that deep down inside maybe they realize their kids will figure out the scam that is creation theory and young earth creationism?

[Reggie Dunlop]

This is stupid.

Kids will just end up learning about science in the back alleys from other kids.

They're inquisitive little buggers. As soon as you forbid something, they'll want it more.

Total waste of time withholding information from them.

[evman150]

"What else can one expect from this bunch of uneducated clowns, where most of the cabinet couldn't get a job interview, let alone a job as janitor because of a lack of qualifications. The Health Minister is a high school drop out, the Finance Minister a piano teacher, and the Premier, unsteady Eddie a pig farmer and on it goes.."

From the Dawkins site...

Really Alberta?

This is embarrassing.

Stereotypes do exist for a reason though. Sad day for Alberta and Canada. Makes me appreciate a little more the city and province I live in.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

You are an onry cuss sometimes. The line has been drawn at evolution and sex ed because there is significant numbers of parents who have concern about these areas. World War II didn't make the grade because there are few or no parents who have issues with that material. Nothing else did either.

Ornery maybe because I ask questions that go unanswered? Hard to have a discussion that way.

The problem with drawing the line where you have is now that's discrimination the other way. You get special treatment because you just happen to be the largest religious group in the province, while those poor sods who just happen to belong to a smaller religious groups (or other groups with specific beliefs) don't get the same privilege.

So much for do unto others... More like do unto me because I'm special.

[tanguay'sstillgood]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Good point. What will happen?

From what I remember of high school the finals were standard tests across the province. Is it still that way?

Only at the grade 12 level.

[peter12]

What this whole thing illustrates is that there is just one more reason to throw out the PC Party and get in a replacement with a leader that is not David Swann.

[HOZ]

I would like to point out this again.

This was a NON-decision - decision

Nothing changed.
- The curriculum never changed.
- What you child will be taught was not change.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by HOZ

I would like to point out this again.

This was a NON-decision - decision

Nothing changed.
- The curriculum never changed.
- What you child will be taught was not change.

Then what's the point? Why are the people who are behind it, behind it?

I know we aren't talking about particularly clever people here, so you may be right, but they must at least believe they get something out of it.

[John Doe]

Originally Posted by HOZ

I would like to point out this again.

This was a NON-decision - decision

Nothing changed.
- The curriculum never changed.
- What you child will be taught was not change.

Absolutely true. But it also classifies evolution as a religious belief and puts actual religious beliefs ahead of empirical knowledge.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by photon

Ornery maybe because I ask questions that go unanswered? Hard to have a discussion that way.

The problem with drawing the line where you have is now that's discrimination the other way. You get special treatment because you just happen to be the largest religious group in the province, while those poor sods who just happen to belong to a smaller religious groups (or other groups with specific beliefs) don't get the same privilege.

So much for do unto others... More like do unto me because I'm special.

You havn't demonstrated one other group who has come foreward with any concerns about whats being taught. I think if this was an ethnic group rather than Christians you wouldn't have any problem with the school notifying them. Fortunately the government of Alberta doesn't have your bias.

[John Doe]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

You havn't demonstrated one other group who has come foreward with any concerns about whats being taught. I think if this was an ethnic group rather than Christians you wouldn't have any problem with the school notifying them. Fortunately the government of Alberta doesn't have your bias.

Why do you Christians feel so persecuted? You feel that you should get special treatment due to your religious beliefs and that if someone else asks for the same treatment, you are hard done by. Didn't Jesus teach you to treat others as you would have them treat you?

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

This is stupid.

Kids will just end up learning about science in the back alleys from other kids.

They're inquisitive little buggers. As soon as you forbid something, they'll want it more.

Total waste of time withholding information from them.

Haha, that cracked me up and gave me a hilarious mental image.

A guy in a dark trench in the alley behind a 7-11, hissing at kids as they walk out with their slurpees...

"Psst. Pssst! Hey you. You wanna learn some... evolution...? It'll make you feel great. Come on, try some.'