Central Alberta man faces charges for shooting a theif

[icecube]

Originally Posted by flameswin

It needs to be said again, apparantly. If a cop shot someone in the back as they were running away, in Canada, they would NOT be looked at as a hero. They would be villified by the majority of the public and the media, and they would be charged for the CRIME they commited. I'm really not sure where getting this idea that cops would do what this guy did AND that they would be considered heroic for doing so.

You forgot to add the part where the cop is suspended with pay, court finds him not guilty, and two thirds of the members on CP find a creative way to defend him.

[cavalera403]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

My only concern is that I would not like to live in an area where people shoot at others for stealing things.

If you are not steeling things and others are not steeling things this would not be a problem.

Castle doctrine has some flaws but if you are not breaking the law trespassing for the purpose of damaging property that is not yours or taking property that is not yours or threatening people on their property it never comes into play. EVER.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by cavalera403

If you are not steeling things and others are not steeling things this would not be a problem.

Castle doctrine has some flaws but if you are not breaking the law trespassing for the purpose of damaging property that is not yours or taking property that is not yours or threatening people on their property it never comes into play. EVER.

What happens if you decide to shortcut through someones yard at night and they assume that you are up to no good. Maybe a ball over the fence in the dark?

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by cavalera403

If you are not steeling things and others are not steeling things this would not be a problem.

Castle doctrine has some flaws but if you are not breaking the law trespassing for the purpose of damaging property that is not yours or taking property that is not yours or threatening people on their property it never comes into play. EVER.

Would one of those flaws be that the odds are the gun will shoot somebody innocent rather than a bad guy?

I am not into worrying if my neighbor has good aim and common sense. Your assertion that it never ever comes into play is wrong.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

What happens if you decide to shortcut through someones yard at night and they assume that you are up to no good. Maybe a ball over the fence in the dark?

If you cut through someone's yard without their permission then you are an @$$hole. I wouldn't shoot someone with a firearm but I'd have no reservations shooting someone with a paintball gun loaded with frozen paintballs.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Reaper

If you cut through someone's yard without their permission then you are an @$$hole. I wouldn't shoot someone with a firearm but I'd have no reservations shooting someone with a paintball gun loaded with frozen paintballs.

That is exactly it. There are a lot of reasons that a person may be in your yard. If your reaction is to assume theft and then shoot at the person you are very likely to hit an innocent person. You can't go out and take the time to investigate the seriousness of their trespass in the dark with a gun in your hand before deciding whether or not they deserve to be shot. You have to err on the side that doesn't have the possibility of killing an innocent person.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

That is exactly it. There are a lot of reasons that a person may be in your yard. If your reaction is to assume theft and then shoot at the person you are very likely to hit an innocent person. You can't go out and take the time to investigate the seriousness of their trespass in the dark with a gun in your hand before deciding whether or not they deserve to be shot. You have to err on the side that doesn't have the possibility of killing an innocent person.

I agree with what you are saying. We have all had moments of preceived danger that was incorrect. People are stupid and stupid things happen.

People with guns and common sense is not a formula I can believe in.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

What happens if you decide to shortcut through someones yard at night and they assume that you are up to no good. Maybe a ball over the fence in the dark?

Knock on neighbours door before going on to their property. I know as a kid we were taught if something went into the yard of someone who wasn't part of the group then we were to ask for permission to enter their premises.

[cavalera403]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

Would one of those flaws be that the odds are the gun will shoot somebody innocent rather than a bad guy?

I am not into worrying if my neighbor has good aim and common sense. Your assertion that it never ever comes into play is wrong.

It never comes into play if people respect other peoples property and stay off of it.

HOOT is also exactly right. If something goes onto somebody's property you ask permission to go get it.

Have people not seen the sandlot? So if this farmer had a big German Shepard that chased down a trespasser is it the dogs fault?

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by cavalera403

If you are not steeling things and others are not steeling things this would not be a problem.

Castle doctrine has some flaws but if you are not breaking the law trespassing for the purpose of damaging property that is not yours or taking property that is not yours or threatening people on their property it never comes into play. EVER.

Why don't we punish our criminals like they do in some other countries, then? If you're not stealing things that don't belong to you, then getting your hands cut off never comes into play. EVER.

[The Coppernian One]

I agree that Knight went to far, but also, from his side, I get it. Still though, too far.

What I wanted to put out there for many in this thread is that there is a difference between living in a highly urban area and lving in the country. RCMP response times are longer and it is far easier for thiefs to dissappear down back roads, oil leases, etc. The chances of getting caught are far smaller as there are also less people to see, which makes areas like this prime targets for thiefs stealing machinery, ATVs or fuel - which can have huge economic and impact on people. It's also not the type of setting where your ball goes into your neighbour's yard (which is usually a 1/2 mile away) or you cut through their farmyard as a shortcut (the only place to generally go from their farmyard is their fields). If a stranger is in your farmyard, particularly at night and hasn't come straight to your house, there's little chance that they're up to anything good. Almost zero.

While it's not the wild west anymore, there is still an independence in rural alberta unlike that in the cities (I've lived in both and currently live in a more rural area). People are used to being self-sustaining in more ways that just economics and most have guns whether for hunting, predator control or fun. Sidebar - We get calls regularly from people complaining that their neighbour is going to shoot their dog. There's not much we can do as it's completely legal in this Province to shoot a dog that is harassing your livestock. Combine guns, frustration, independence and a spark (in this case a guy stealing an ATV) and bad things happen.

Again, while I don't agree with what Knight did, I think that there needs to be some cognizance that using examples of things in a city are often not good comparators to what happens in the country, even though philosophies being applied to those actions are the same. Just putting some of that out there.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Why don't we punish our criminals like they do in some other countries, then? If you're not stealing things that don't belong to you, then getting your hands cut off never comes into play. EVER.

Unless of course, you're wrongly accused, and then charged. But obviously that's never happened at any time in any place in the world.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by cavalera403

It never comes into play if people respect other peoples property and stay off of it.

HOOT is also exactly right. If something goes onto somebody's property you ask permission to go get it.

Have people not seen the sandlot? So if this farmer had a big German Shepard that chased down a trespasser is it the dogs fault?

Well it does come into play cause people do go into others yards. If they didnt I guess you wouldnt need a gun for said reason.
Once again I will say that you are incorrect if you believe that accidents NEVER happen when bullets fly in a neighborhood. Bullets dont travel to the end of ones yard and stop.

It was just a couple of days ago I was stopping at a friends house but it was only my second time being there. I thought I knew the right house without a number (cause really who hear knows their friends house number) I walked around back and dropped in on a couple sitting on their deck. Scared the crap out of them and me, and realized I was two houses off. Silly things and accidents happen. I would assume I am not the first person to go to a wrong house. I cant help but think that innocent mistakes happen more often life threatning invasions.