Alberta's Oil Sands in pictures

[Ronald Pagan]

Of course it takes time.

Your previous statement makes it seem like lots of land has been reclaimed and that National Geographic ignored it.

My statement was that they weren't ignoring much at all.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The oil and sludge has benzene, ethylbenzene, toluene, xyenes, naphthalene, aromatics, as well as some metals... many of which are known to cause numerous health problems - including cancer.

I work as an environmental consultant for oil companies and deal with this stuff directly all the time. I collect the samples, see the data, and write the reports. The stuff isn't benign by any stretch of the imagination.

Thanks FA. I'm not fully up to speed on these details.

I'm curious, which of these came from the ground originally? What are their sources...from the original bitumen, added to the process, a by-product of the process?

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by BavarianHorde

No, that may very well be true. Like I said before, I haven't seen the oilsands before. I have heard them described, but never saw them.

There is always two sides to every story. There are issues where I live right now too where the same arguement is being made. I am just really curious because I have never seen the projects before, and I think it would be really good to see the after affects, after the sands are reclaimed.

It is beautiful country. I never realized that it was like that up there.

It's refreshing to hear someone who is not fully aware of the issue recognize that fact before casting an opinion.

That's the problem I have with a lot of people who bash the oil sands. They have no idea about them and they've never tried to learn anything about them before voicing opinions.

[habernac]

Why ignore it then? Bring it up. Syncrude has been around for just over 30 years. It takes about 20 years to reclaim the land. Seems pretty reasonable that not a lot of land has been reclaimed as they haven't been around all that long. Don't tell half the story like some Moore "documentary".

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

Yup all 104 hectares of it.

That's ALL that has been reclaimed so far to the point to receive a reclamation certificate from the AB government.

With more and more coming down the pipe. It takes 30 years to reclaim these lands.

[burn_this_city]

I wish we could post pictures of the freshly reclaimed land. Some of it is pretty impressive compared to the farm fields we were orginally churning out.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

Clueless.

Oil sands tailings are toxic. Do an iota of reading on the topic.

WRT your second point, not all mines are giant open pit mines. The oil sands mines are some of the biggest by area in the world.

Many mines are shaft mines like in Sudbury etc.

First off, your sides of a debate would come across with much more intelligence if you learned to deliver them with some more tact.

1) Addressed that in a reply to FA

2) What's your point? Many are open pit mines. And what's your source for claiming they are some of the biggest in the world? Google "garzweiler mine" if you want to see a big open pit mine.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Just a little nitpick here, but is that true that 80% of the operations are underground, or is it that 80% of the reserves are in deep deposits, but most of these are not currently being heavily developed due to the cost restrictions?

80% of the Reserves are too deep for mining.
This accounts to 97.5% of the reserves as viewed by surface area since the shallow reserves that can be mined usually have deeper pay zones.

Oil Sand production:
991,000 bbls/day from mines
403,000 bbls/day from in-situ operations

Edit: I should probably add a source. Stats from CAPP.ca...I'll search for the real presentations later tonight when I have time.

[T@T]

Prediction:

In 20 years Fort Mac will be a ghost-town and Coal-to-Oil will be the new gig.

Hurry up and buy that cheap eastcoast land while you can.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by T@T

Prediction:

In 20 years Fort Mac will be a ghost-town and Coal-to-Oil will be the new gig.

Hurry up and buy that cheap eastcoast land while you can.

I played squash with a guy who was trying to do this. The process makes pretty good sense actually. I'd love to see the economics behind it.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

I played squash with a guy who was trying to do this. The process makes pretty good sense actually. I'd love to see the economics behind it.

Way worse than Oil Sands. Check out South Africa Coal to Liquids plants, there's also one in Montana and North Dakota. Also potentially worse emissions than oil sands.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Way worse than Oil Sands. Check out South Africa Coal to Liquids plants, there's also one in Montana and North Dakota. Also potentially worse emissions than oil sands.

interesting. Can you go into more detail on the process (or steps of the process). What if CO2 capture was involved?

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

interesting. Can you go into more detail on the process (or steps of the process). What if CO2 capture was involved?

I'm a finance guy and not an engineer so I cannot really identify places where future advancements in technology can improve the process economics. I would presume that eventually it would make sense economically.

However I do know right now that the plants I mentioned above could not operate at a profit even when oil was high as they are heavily government subsidized projects. Considering that, Coal to Liquids technology would have to grow leaps and bounds ahead of oil sands extration technology in order to be a preferred energy alternative. Even then the individual plants might operate better, but there's always a question of the upstream extraction process for the coal they use.

Here's a diagram of a Coal to Natural gas Process (I know it's not Coal to Liquids) used in North Dakota, a Carbon Capture Strategy is actually used in the Weyburn Oil field from this plant. That being said the plant was built and operated by government money in the 1970s. I would imagine the greenfield economics would be prohibitive vs. conventional/unconventional Natural gas.

http://www.dakotagas.com/Companyinfo...n_Process.html

[missdpuck]

Very educational, thanks. I always wondered why we hear virtually nothing about Canadian oil here.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by peter12

What really concerns me are the rising cancer rates in towns south of Fort Mac and the anemic response by Alberta's public health institutions.

Is this an environmental problem or a lifestyle problem?

People with more money to burn on smokes and booze and God knows what else. Be interesting to find out.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

WRT your second point, not all mines are giant open pit mines. The oil sands mines are some of the biggest by area in the world.

Yeah, I dunno if I can believe that. Add up all the open pit coal mines, gold mines, diamond mines, and see what kind of area you're talking about. Oil sands are big, for sure, but I have a really hard time believing that they're bigger (or even one of the biggest) in comparison to the size of the combined total land mass other types of mines take up.

[photon]

Not relevant, I just love that huge diamond mine.

[RougeUnderoos]

Is that real? Where is it?

Edit: Never mind. Wow.

http://www.usmra.com/photos/bigpit/

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I read in the Herald recently that 150,000 ducks were killed by hunters in Alberta last year. The ducks in the toxic drink is obviously a terrible thing, but I think their memory is being tarnished.

Most of us recognize that they have to take the oil out. The most rational gripe (I say that because it is mine) is that they seem to be doing it as fast as possible and with no regard for the consequences.

Get the oil out, go for it. Just don't poison the water and recklessly pollute the air while you are doing it and don't leave it looking like the surface of the moon.

And keep finding new and better ways to make getting the oil more environmentally friendly.

[OilersBaby]

Originally Posted by peter12

What really concerns me are the rising cancer rates in towns south of Fort Mac and the anemic response by Alberta's public health institutions.

Yeah you guys might think Im crazy but I believe that there is a strong correlation between cancer and the Oil Sands in the Fort McMurray region. I lived there for about 11 years and the amount of people (young and old) that developed cancer as well as other health issues is sky high...Ive known more people there whove gotten cancer than anywhere else Ive lived. And my dad just died of small cell lung cancer (and he'd never smoked in his life) and I just gotta wonder........................................