The 2009 Canadian Budget Thread

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Slava

Not in those exact words. I am going by memory here, but I think it was the "The economy is fundamentally strong" comment that has caused them grief. (This is the same comment that John McCain made in the US).

Like I say, I'm not too sure whether they knew more and were sugar coating this for the citizenry or whether they just had no idea. The more I think about it though, someone around them should've realised that this was a big deal!

There was an independent review done of the G7 members, and Canada scored as the country "best situated to receive the least negative impact" from the recession. The Conservatives made mention of this in the media, and everything was blown out of proportion by the Opposition parties and the Liberal/NDP biased media outlets... and the French (who don't even have a word for "entrepreneur" btw).

[Slava]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

There was an independent review done of the G7 members, and Canada scored as the country "best situated to receive the least negative impact" from the recession. The Conservatives made mention of this in the media, and everything was blown out of proportion by the Opposition parties and the Liberal/NDP biased media outlets... and the French (who don't even have a word for "entrepreneur" btw).

haha!

I still think that Canada is far better off than a lot of the other countries. I don't think that it was blown out of proportion by the media though....its a pretty serious situation (or at least it was a pretty serious situation) and being the best suited doesn't necessarily equate to having an economy that is fundamentally strong!

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Slava

haha!

I still think that Canada is far better off than a lot of the other countries. I don't think that it was blown out of proportion by the media though....its a pretty serious situation (or at least it was a pretty serious situation) and being the best suited doesn't necessarily equate to having an economy that is fundamentally strong!

I can agree to that.

[Bunk]

So with the Federal budget allowing cities to apply for infrastructure money (same thing with the Building Canada fund) do you think the City of Calgary will push for funding of the SELRT and Stephen Avenue Subway?

Apparently there is to be a 1/3 municipal, 1/3 provincial, 1/3 federal split for projects. In some cases the federal government will consider covering 50% of projects if the province comes forward with 50% (in cases the municipality cannot contribute their share).

For first phase SELRT ($1.2 billion), could the city pull $400 million from the municipal sustainability fund, work out $400 million from the Green TRIP provincial fund to negotiate the final $400 million with the Federal government?

I hope Bronconnier pushes really hard on this item (and the SAS if possible). It would be great to have the Stephen Avenue Subway, SELRT and WLRT up and running before say 2014-2015.

Even better would be to go balls to the wall and try and get the whole $2 billion line to the South Health Campus built with this funding (that might require more provincial funding)

[csnarpy]

I like this budget but also would like less of a deficit. If it wasn't for the Coalition threat, this budget would be very different. I think now, i wish Dion was still in power and thus anything by Harper would be rejected. Having a new election is the only way to go, the opposition have sunk so low that a majority government would easily be obtained.

If Ignaf were to reject this, not sure if a majority gov would be a given.... still kindof hope he does though. I just want a majority government.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Did they go as far as saying the economy was sound though? I thought their talk was more along the lines of Canada being in the best shape of the G7.

Originally Posted by FanIn80

That's exactly what they said, and it's all they ever said. All the other crap and innuendo is just lies and "politics."

Actually it was a bit of both:

"We have in Canada the strongest economic fundamentals in the G7, so we're prepared to weather the storm."

http://uk.reuters.com/article/market...20884220080411

I think what confuses and/or upsets some people is what the PC's campaigned on this past fall.

This was in their election materials ("Stephen Harper's plan for Canadians")

Today, Canada is strong, united and free – the envy of the world. We are in the
best financial position of any country in the G7. While other countries are
struggling with uncertainty, Canada is on the cusp of becoming a bastion of
economic strength on the international stage.

[

[longsuffering]

Can someone help me understand this chart from the Budget document?

My understanding that the only tax relief in the budget was the increase in personal exemptions and the increase in the amounts taxes at the 2 lowest tax rates, but the savings for higher income earners continue to grow.

Wouldn't tax savings be maxxed out at $80,000?

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by csnarpy

I like this budget but also would like less of a deficit. If it wasn't for the Coalition threat, this budget would be very different.

I think that saying the budget would be different if it wasn't for the coalition is a cop-out.

Either Harper and his Party believe in the Budget they presented or they don't.

If they don't - as you suggest - then maintaining power is more important to Harper than his principles. If Harper and his team do not believe in this budget they should not have presented it. And if they had presented a budget that all Opposition parties rejected forcing an election, then he should be principled enough to go to the voters and campaign on his beliefs.

I'm of the opinion that Harper and Conservatives presented a Budget they support 100%.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Bunk

So with the Federal budget allowing cities to apply for infrastructure money (same thing with the Building Canada fund) do you think the City of Calgary will push for funding of the SELRT and Stephen Avenue Subway?

Apparently there is to be a 1/3 municipal, 1/3 provincial, 1/3 federal split for projects. In some cases the federal government will consider covering 50% of projects if the province comes forward with 50% (in cases the municipality cannot contribute their share).

I'm disappointed but not surprised by this cost-sharing approach.

First off, municipal and provincial governments aren't exactly flush with cash. Either they won't be able to access these funds or they'll be forced to increase taxes or debt to finance their share and access the federal funds.

Secondly, it looks as thought there is an application and approval process to access funds. This will slow down implementation of projects. My understanding of the budget document is that most infrastructure funds have to be spent in 2009 and 2010. Bureaucratic delays will affect how many infrastructure projects are started and completed.

Thirdly, the Federal government ends up having the final say over what projects are financed or not-financed in Calgary and Alberta. Surely local governments are better able to prioritize infrastructure projects than the feds.

Lastly, the infrastructure funds in the budget aren't allocated on a regional basis. Will Calgary and Alberta receive its fair share?

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

I think that saying the budget would be different if it wasn't for the coalition is a cop-out.

Either Harper and his Party believe in the Budget they presented or they don't.

If they don't - as you suggest - then maintaining power is more important to Harper than his principles. If Harper and his team do not believe in this budget they should not have presented it. And if they had presented a budget that all Opposition parties rejected forcing an election, then he should be principled enough to go to the voters and campaign on his beliefs.

I'm of the opinion that Harper and Conservatives presented a Budget they support 100%.

Interesting...

Look no further than Jack Layton, as a shining example of someone who won't sacrifice his own "principles" for the sake of giving Canadians what they actually asked for (instead of what they didn't).

I don't get it... If the PCs didn't present a budget with a stimulus package, they would have lost the House and non-PC supporters would have blamed them for it... But, present the stimulus and keep the House, and non-PC supporters are still up in arms.

Personally, I think we'd all save each other a lot of typing every time a new issue comes up, by just saying, "I like Harper" or "Harper sucks." I mean, at the end of the day, once you boil down the 400 word posts, this is all anybody's really saying anyway.

Edit: Also, remember that the Opposition rejecting the budget would not have triggered an election. It would have simply just given the usurpers a chance to form the new Government. This, of course, being something that the overwhelming (there have been scientific polls to prove this) majority of Canadians would not have wanted.

[Nancy]

Originally Posted by ikaris

Seeing as there is a $750 dollar tax credit for a new home purchase and up to $1350 tax credit for home renovations, do you think I could qualify for both since I'm purchasing a new condo?

For the home renovation tax credit, could I not apply claiming the upgrades?

I am guessing there will be something in the fine print that says that the home must be at least X years old.

Otherwise, you could also double dip on the landscaping, as I understand some types of landscaping costs may be covered by the program as well.

[csnarpy]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

I think that saying the budget would be different if it wasn't for the coalition is a cop-out.

Either Harper and his Party believe in the Budget they presented or they don't.

If they don't - as you suggest - then maintaining power is more important to Harper than his principles. If Harper and his team do not believe in this budget they should not have presented it. And if they had presented a budget that all Opposition parties rejected forcing an election, then he should be principled enough to go to the voters and campaign on his beliefs.

I'm of the opinion that Harper and Conservatives presented a Budget they support 100%.

I believe it is a bit of a cop out but it has to do what is best for Canadians. He had a budget all planned out and then the threat of the Coalition came. They used the upcoming budget as their reasoning for toppling the gov. If it wasn't for that initial threat, i believe that this budget would actually be surplus driven. That would have sucked for Canadians in the beginning but we were very much hit much less than any other country.

So, instead of having himself force-ably removed from office, he suspended parliament and decided to work with the opposition. Do I think this is a cop out? yes and no. First, they buckled BUT would you rather have a minority gov of your choice or the Coalition running things? I think he reacted and chose this direction based on the peoples concensus and not his.

Again, i hope the Liberals reject this so we can have a majority government and then he can do what he wants.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Can someone help me understand this chart from the Budget document?

My understanding that the only tax relief in the budget was the increase in personal exemptions and the increase in the amounts taxes at the 2 lowest tax rates, but the savings for higher income earners continue to grow.

Wouldn't tax savings be maxxed out at $80,000?

I took out the chart in the interest of space, but basically its because everyone gets to claim the new minimum exemption of $10k when before it was $9k. Also, because as you earn more money the tax savings from the changed tax brackets also save you some money. You pay the tax on the money as you go into the new tax bracket, but don't pay the whole amount on every dollar underneath it. Say you earn $85k. You still save money on the first $80k.(I hope that this makes some sense!)

[Mike F]

Can anyone point to any significant part of this budget that is a response to or ties in with the US spending plans?

I mean that was the reason for the delay, right? A significant stimulus package couldn't be passed months ago because we needed to see what Obama did when he took office, right?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Mike F

Can anyone point to any significant part of this budget that is a response to or ties in with the US spending plans?

I mean that was the reason for the delay, right? A significant stimulus package couldn't be passed months ago because we needed to see what Obama did when he took office, right?

Good point. But also when the economic update was released they were still saying that we would have no deficit, and maybe even weren't admitting that there was a recession yet!

[Nancy]

More info on the Home Reno Tax Credit here:



http://www.budget.gc.ca/2009/pamphle...iant3-eng.html

[ma-skis.com]

When would these changes take effect for the taxes? would it apply for the 2008 year (where we file in another month or two) or 2009 year(where we file in another year and a bit)?

[Slava]

The changes take effect for when you file in 2009 I think.

[Slava]

I figured I would post the budget highlights here, sorry if I missed this earlier in the thread:


-$85-billion deficit over five years, including $34 billion in 2009-2010 and $30 billion the next year.
-Cut personal taxes by $20 billion over six years, including increasing the basic personal amount that can be earned tax-free, and raising the upper limit of the two lowest personal income-tax brackets.
-Cut business taxes by $2 billion over six years.
-Improve access to financing for consumers and businesses with support of up to $200 billion, including $50 billion extra for the Insured Mortgage Purchase Program, and a $12-billion secured credit facility to improve access to financing to buy and lease new vehicles.
-$12 billion ($7 billion in new cash) for infrastructure spending on things like roads, sewers and universities, including $1 billion for "green" infrastructure, and $1 billion for clean-energy research.
-$7.8 billion for social housing and private home renovation, including a one-year Home Renovation Tax Credit of up to $1,350 per household.
-$8.3 billion for skills and training, including $1.5 billion in new cash to retrain workers.
-Extend Employment Insurance benefits by five weeks for two years.
-$2.7 billion in short-term loans to the auto industry.
-A two-year, $1-billion Community Adjustment Fund to help communities adjust to economic hardship.
-Over $1.4 billion for aboriginal schools, health, water, housing, community services and training.

I don't think that there is anything too offensive in the budget as a whole. I would expect that the Liberals support this and pass the budget.

[Cube Inmate]

Disgusted...disillusioned. The rumours (er..."official leaks") that have been circulating for a few days have not lessened the blow to this supporter of fiscally responsible policies.

There is now virtually nothing differentiating the Cons from the Libs. I could try to rationalize this in any number of ways if I *wanted* to continue supporting the Cons, but there's really no point.

Moronic public
+sensationalist, doomsday media
+game-playing politicians
+religion
+human nature
--------------------------------
No hope for the future