Gas tank full today?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Dion

Then set your prices based on the present shortage as opposed to what you think the shortage will look like after the storm

No, they set their prices according to the supply that is currently available. Obviously, there is a shortage of gas right now, so the price automatically goes up.

This isn't 'new'....its the way a free-market operates.

The amount of damage determines the amount of the increase. If the refineries are down for a long period time the shortage will become greater creating more demand and higher prices. Contrast that to them being up and running in say a week and thus being able to supply that shortage sooner.

Uhhhh, I think they already HAVE accessed the damage, and realize that it might take a while to get the refineries back online, hence the sudden jump in prices.

There were Emergency Services in the US who were told the the day before the hurricane hit Texas to come fill up all their cars because there was going to be a huge shortage of gas.

Are you saying that speculators no longer have a say in the price of oil?

No. But obviously they have nothing to do with what the price of oil is doing right now.

[Slava]

In reference to a few of you wanting me to elaborate on why its a scam. Plain and simple when the price of gas was dropping we heard all about how its a futures market and you have to wait for the cheaper gas to make it through the system.

Of course that doesn't apply here though....I mean sure the company paid for the gas a month ago, and the hurricane that shuts things down is today, but the company couldn't possibly sell based on their buying price?

Last night on the news Michael Irvin was trying to justify this one as well. His comment was that due to the increased prices it would be impossible for the oil companies to sell for cheaper.

btw, the comment about stock prices is not even in the same realm (unless you mean to suggest that some stocks are off the mark with their values...because that is in direct correlation here).

In any event I think that the oil industry is pulling the wool over our eyes in a number of ways. I still have no idea how they can never predict supply and demand correctly despite years and years of running their industry. I also have no idea why the "driving season" catches them off guard every year, and on a consistent basis. We know that people are going to drive more, yet every year the refining capacity is not enough...go figure.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Azure

No, they set their prices according to the supply that is currently available. Obviously, there is a shortage of gas right now, so the price automatically goes up.

This isn't 'new'....its the way a free-market operates.

I would disagree as i believe these latest set of increases were based on the worst case sinerio of refineries being down for an extended period of time

Uhhhh, I think they already HAVE accessed the damage, and realize that it might take a while to get the refineries back online, hence the sudden jump in prices.

Price increases happened before Ike hit the refineries and the resulting damage report. They anticipated a worst case sinerio and got it right this time.

There were Emergency Services in the US who were told the the day before the hurricane hit Texas to come fill up all their cars because there was going to be a huge shortage of gas.

That's my point. Oil comapnies raised prices anticipating that Texas drivers would use up what supply they had left. The real shortage came after people filled up thier vehicles.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Dion

That's my point. Oil comapnies raised prices anticipating that Texas drivers would use up what supply they had left. The real shortage came after people filled up thier vehicles.

Yeah, except there actually WAS a shortage of gas.

Hence why the Emergency Services were called to fill everything up to make sure THEY weren't unable to do their job.

I talked to a few people down there, Florida, and some of the other Eastern Provinces, they said that there were gas stations without any gas. Obviously those stations would raise their prices like crazy to try and keep people from buying so it would last longer.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Slava

In any event I think that the oil industry is pulling the wool over our eyes in a number of ways. I still have no idea how they can never predict supply and demand correctly despite years and years of running their industry. I also have no idea why the "driving season" catches them off guard every year, and on a consistent basis. We know that people are going to drive more, yet every year the refining capacity is not enough...go figure.

Part of the problem is refineries have to shut down for maintince and are unable to make gasoline. Then there's also the sinerio they were talking about on CNN where refineries cut back on gasoline production at this time of year to focus more of thier efforts on making heating oil. We need more refineries.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Slava

In any event I think that the oil industry is pulling the wool over our eyes in a number of ways. I still have no idea how they can never predict supply and demand correctly despite years and years of running their industry. I also have no idea why the "driving season" catches them off guard every year, and on a consistent basis. We know that people are going to drive more, yet every year the refining capacity is not enough...go figure.

What exactly are they supposed to do about the 'driving' season? Increase production? It takes 3 years for a 1.09billion dollar project in the Alberta oilsands to go from 15,000 barrels per day, to 35,000 barrels per day.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Azure

Yeah, except there actually WAS a shortage of gas.

Hence why the Emergency Services were called to fill everything up to make sure THEY weren't unable to do their job.

I talked to a few people down there, Florida, and some of the other Eastern Provinces, they said that there were gas stations without any gas. Obviously those stations would raise their prices like crazy to try and keep people from buying so it would last longer.

If you didn't have the threat of Ike on the horizon you wouldn't have had a run on gasoline or a shortage for that matter.

ES was correct to what they did as they knew that a run on gasoline by Texans would create a shortage where many stations would run dry.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Dion

Part of the problem is refineries have to shut down for maintince and are unable to make gasoline. Then there's also the sinerio they were talking about on CNN where refineries cut back on gasoline production at this time of year to focus more of thier efforts on making heating oil. We need more refineries.

I know...and its a circular argument that really doesn't work on a message board (IMO). I guess the thing that drives me nuts about the whole thing is that this is an essential service (in my eyes) and the industry has us over the barrel.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Slava

I know...and its a circular argument that really doesn't work on a message board (IMO). I guess the thing that drives me nuts about the whole thing is that this is an essential service (in my eyes) and the industry has us over the barrel.

I agree with much of what you are saying. You would think Oil companies would be building more refineries. Then again more refineries means greater supply and less profit for these guys.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Dion

If you didn't have the threat of Ike on the horizon you wouldn't have had a run on gasoline or a shortage for that matter.

No kidding, because refineries wouldn't be shutdown and unable to produce gas.

I don't even see your point in all of this.

Most gas stations raised their prices like crazy because they realized there was going to be a shortage, plus, buying their next shipment of gas would have cost a LOT more.

So they tried to get the Average Joe to NOT go buy gas. Too bad most people are too stupid to realize that.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Dion

I agree with much of what you are saying. You would think Oil companies would be building more refineries. Then again more refineries means greater supply and less profit for these guys.

That is the entire problem right there. They have all of the power here, and there is no way that they cut into their profit margin unless regulations force them to do so.

[Azure]

Sigh.

Pretty sure someone posted a report here a few months ago that said that lack of refineries wasn't the problem.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Azure

No kidding, because refineries wouldn't be shutdown and unable to produce gas.

I don't even see your point in all of this.

Most gas stations raised their prices like crazy because they realized there was going to be a shortage, plus, buying their next shipment of gas would have cost a LOT more.

So they tried to get the Average Joe to NOT go buy gas. Too bad most people are too stupid to realize that.

My point is there was no shortage when ES and others went to fill thier tanks. It came after the pumps ran dry.

The price increase was not based on an actual shortage but rather an anticipated shortage.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Dion

My point is there was no shortage when ES and others went to fill thier tanks. It came after the pumps ran dry.

The price increase was not based on an actual shortage but rather an anticipated shortage.

Well, duh. They called ES prior to running out, to make SURE that their cars would be filled up first.

There was an actual shortage though. That was the reason for the prices being increased.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Azure

Sigh.

Pretty sure someone posted a report here a few months ago that said that lack of refineries wasn't the problem.

I find that hard to believe. I heard yesterday that gasoline supplies are at a 8 year low. Correct me if i'm wrong btw. Logic would dictate that if you have more refineries up and running they could increase they supply of gasoline.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Azure

Well, duh. They called ES prior to running out, to make SURE that their cars would be filled up first.

There was an actual shortage though. That was the reason for the prices being increased.

If there was a shortage ES would not have gotten all thier vehicles filled. Guess we're looking at it from different sides.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Dion

I find that hard to believe. I heard yesterday that gasoline supplies are at a 8 year low. Correct me if i'm wrong btw. Logic would dictate that if you have more refineries up and running they could increase they supply of gasoline.

I don't know the specifics. Flames07 could elaborate I think.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Azure

I don't know the specifics. Flames07 could elaborate I think.

Hopefully he posts the specifics as i would be curious as to what he has to say.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Dion

If there was a shortage ES would not have gotten all thier vehicles filled. Guess we're looking at it from different sides.

Huh?

There was a shortage, obviously. Hence the price increase. What exactly are you saying?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Azure

Huh?

There was a shortage, obviously. Hence the price increase. What exactly are you saying?

Why not increase the price after shortage occurs as opposed to before it happens.