Alberta as a Country

[metal_geek]

Originally Posted by blankall

It's in the Canadian constitution that provinces should have control over resources within their borders. Maybe separation isn't the answer and we just need a government that actually follows the constitution.

The provinces have control over thier resources the touchy part is the revenue from them goes into the provincial coffers and the Fedral gov taxes it in the form of "Equalization" payments. The one notable exception to this is Alberta's Oil and gas Revenues are NOT included in that calculation, where as other provinces with oil revenues ARE included.. You wanna talk about equalization... Include Alberta's Oil and start talking about the payments we'd be making..
________
#### Suck

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Quebec, on the other hand, has three parties that can legitimately take control in both provincial and federal elections. So these parties all work hard to win votes in Quebec, and as a result, Quebec benefits from more attention than any other province.

Ontario is the same way. It can swing either way and therefore a lot of politicians suck up to it. It's not nearly as staunchly Liberal as many people think. If Alberta would be less unconditional to just one party, they would probably find that they'd have a lot more power in federal politics.

[North East Goon]

Originally Posted by octothorp

A Banana Republic in the NE? Keep dreaming... how about another Randy River location, instead.

We don't wear girly man's capri's and metro stuff like that. Just give us a Mark's Work Wearhouse and a Saan store!

[Bertuzzied]

It would be kind of neat to see Lanny Mcdonald on the Alberta $1000 bill or Ralph Klein on the $10000 bill. Our increments will be larger since we will all be wealthy. Sort of like the North American Dubai. We could have a F1 race here, a 7 star hotel shaped like a horse, a hockey arena shaped like a saddle, and some cool high tech passports that look similar to an iphone.

I think a more feasible plan will be to sell Northern Alberta to the Japanese, who would need to relocate after global warming and tsunamis floods their island. How awesome would it be to drive 3 hours to Neo-Tokyo?

I will finally be able to drive a new honda accord wagon. Make it happen!!!

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by troutman

When would it end?

Northern Alberta doesn't understand us - let's seperate and form the independent nation of Southern Alberta.

The rural S. Albertan's don't understand us - let's form the independent City State of Calgary.

NE Calgary really does not "fit in" - etc . . . .

yeeepp center street should be a wall and not a street.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Yup, but one of the main reasons for that is that Alberta always supports the same parties federally, and always elects majority provincial governments. For the conservatives traditionally, there was never a need to do much for Alberta, because they'd vote conservative anyway.

understood, and completely agree

I was just trying to make the point that while there are some Albertans that complain about 'supporting' Quebec/Ontario whomever, its not like there aren't factions that complain about Alberta either (whether its politicans, or regular folk who like to call us all rednecks who drag down the country)

who is the chicken and who is the egg I don't know or care, but I don't think its just coming from Alberta

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by blankall

It's in the Canadian constitution that provinces should have control over resources within their borders. Maybe separation isn't the answer and we just need a government that actually follows the constitution.

The main hurdle is the power of the purse that the Federal Government is allowed to wield due to a disjointed tax system, featuring, but not limited to, transfer payments.

It is far too difficult to micromanage a country as diverse and different in viewpoints, needs, and outlooks to do so from a central source, and the spirit of the constitution supports that.

For example, according to the constitution, provinces should enjoy complete autonomy in healthcare delivery. The Canada Health Act tries to supercede this authority, but does not actually do so, since doing so would require a constitutional amendment. The Federal Government wields their authority by holding a province's rightful tax money ransom, in exchange for performance of certain criteria.

While many would complain, the best way to unify Canada is to abolish the transfer system outright, greatly reduce the federal share of tax and allow provinces to act decisively on their guaranteed provincial powers, and the leeway to act decisively in the split powers. This would hold the "lefties" accountable for their spendhappy social programs and economic belligerency, and would hold the "right wingers" accountable for cutting corners and cheaping out on essential programs all while staying under the Canadian umbrella and with the government guaranteeing certain equalities under their exclusive constitutional controls. If Alberta can afford to have 5 world class universities if it kept more of its internal revenue, why should they not be allowed to do so, other Canadians are free to move there. Conversely, if Alberta chooses to send that money to the ranchers, should they not be punished by losing their people to a province that was free to spend its greater tax money on a superior program that steals their citizens? Propping up poorly run regimes is not efficient, effective or prudent leadership, and it breeds discontent.

Why would Quebec or Ontario or Alberta want to separate if they are free to dictate their conditions with the security of a national safety net.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

While many would complain, the best way to unify Canada is to abolish the transfer system outright, greatly reduce the federal share of tax and allow provinces to act decisively on their guaranteed provincial powers, and the leeway to act decisively in the split powers. This would hold the "lefties" accountable for their spendhappy social programs and economic belligerency, and would hold the "right wingers" accountable for cutting corners and cheaping out on essential programs all while staying under the Canadian umbrella and with the government guaranteeing certain equalities under their exclusive constitutional controls. If Alberta can afford to have 5 world class universities if it kept more of its internal revenue, why should they not be allowed to do so, other Canadians are free to move there. Conversely, if Alberta chooses to send that money to the ranchers, should they not be punished by losing their people to a province that was free to spend its greater tax money on a superior program that steals their citizens? Propping up poorly run regimes is not efficient, effective or prudent leadership, and it breeds discontent.

Why would Quebec or Ontario or Alberta want to separate if they are free to dictate their conditions with the security of a national safety net.

I think the transfer system is necessarily, but extremely inefficient the way it currently is designed. I'd like to see something where provinces can opt out of the federal transfer system and make payments directly to other provinces. For example, if Alberta owes $1 billion in transfer payments, they can negotiate directly with the 'havenot' provinces regarding who gets the money. Perhaps New Brunswick will take the money and invest that in universities, but in exchange, will develop programs specifically designed for educating their graduates with skills that the Alberta labour market requires, and allow Alberta businesses first crack at recruiting these graduates, while at the same time encouraging Alberta businesses to open industries in New Brunswick. You'd essentially see efficient partnerships between provinces, rather than the current centrally administered imbroglio.

[Gozer]

Except those rules wouldn't apply to a "distinct" Quebec, and that would undermine the whole damn thing.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by octothorp

I think the transfer system is necessarily, but extremely inefficient the way it currently is designed. I'd like to see something where provinces can opt out of the federal transfer system and make payments directly to other provinces. For example, if Alberta owes $1 billion in transfer payments, they can negotiate directly with the 'havenot' provinces regarding who gets the money. Perhaps New Brunswick will take the money and invest that in universities, but in exchange, will develop programs specifically designed for educating their graduates with skills that the Alberta labour market requires, and allow Alberta businesses first crack at recruiting these graduates, while at the same time encouraging Alberta businesses to open industries in New Brunswick. You'd essentially see efficient partnerships between provinces, rather than the current centrally administered imbroglio.

I agree with you, though provinces could forge exchange partnerships in exchange for certain perks without an existing federal transfer system.

In fact, I would expect that if there was a provincial opt-out ability... Alberta, BC, Saskatchewan and probably Newfoundland would opt-out immediately, citing the need to get better bang for their buck. Without other major contributors to lessen their burdens, and also citing the need for a better return, Ontario and Quebec would opt out. With those six out, the system would collapse, as it would be a joke.

[Cawz]

Originally Posted by MaDMaN_26

Meh, silly question, only rednecks and ######s would think this is a good idea ...

Unfortuanly, if you drive south on highway 22 to the Crowsnest, some of these rednecks have signs erected advertising separation.

[ShaolinFlame]

Originally Posted by octothorp

I think the transfer system is necessarily, but extremely inefficient the way it currently is designed. I'd like to see something where provinces can opt out of the federal transfer system and make payments directly to other provinces. For example, if Alberta owes $1 billion in transfer payments, they can negotiate directly with the 'havenot' provinces regarding who gets the money. Perhaps New Brunswick will take the money and invest that in universities, but in exchange, will develop programs specifically designed for educating their graduates with skills that the Alberta labour market requires, and allow Alberta businesses first crack at recruiting these graduates, while at the same time encouraging Alberta businesses to open industries in New Brunswick. You'd essentially see efficient partnerships between provinces, rather than the current centrally administered imbroglio.

Eliminating bureaucracy? Economics? Efficiency? Market oriented decisions? What are you, a crazy right wing nut?

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by moon

No longer have to listen to Quebec whining about being distinct, no longer have to listen to Maritimes whine about how great the Maritimes are and how terrible it is that they have to move away because the Province are too worthless to create any jobs and no longer have to listen to people in Ontario yap about how great they are.

I was wondering how long a thread like this was going to go before someone started badmouthing the province I live in (Ontario) and the area of the country I come from (Maritimes).

Quebecers = whiners
Maritimers = whiners
Ontarians = arrogant
Maritimes = worthless

Apparently, based on this post alone, someone is giving us Ontarians a run for our money.....

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by octothorp

I think the transfer system is necessarily, but extremely inefficient the way it currently is designed. I'd like to see something where provinces can opt out of the federal transfer system and make payments directly to other provinces.

Novel idea, but the provinces can't even get interprovincial trade barriers lower than international trade barriers. We are notoriously bad at co-operation.

Besides, right now we pay 70% or so of our taxes to Ottawa for sharing. No way Albertans would voluntarily make that payment.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I was wondering how long a thread like this was going to go before someone started badmouthing the province I live in (Ontario) and the area of the country I come from (Maritimes).

oh quit whining

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by blankall

Having lived in both BC and Ontario, BC is clearly teh centre for arts. Yet every bit of federal funding seems to go to Ontario. They have Chum City and its associates broadcasting a variety of shows made in Ontario. The whole thing is ridiculous.

I didn't realize that Chum was funded by the federal government. Do you have a link for that?

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

oh quit whining

Truly arrogant

Not from around here.......

[North East Goon]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

yeeepp center street should be a wall and not a street.

Damn rights it should be, we dont need all those murders from the west side seeping into our culture!