Democratic Presidential Primaries 2008 - Page 5 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

HotHotHeat · 02-21-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J pold

Obama is strange to me…when I listen too him speak all I hear is change

“The change we seek”

“The change is coming”

“America needs change”

However I never hear him actually layout any polices about anything really. He just vaguely touches on a few items but nothing seems concrete with this guy.

To be honest, you haven't actually attempted to find out where he stands. None of the candidates stand up at their rallies and outline the specifics of their platform. They rally their supporters, try to get out that perfect 15 second sound bite for the 6 o clock news. Tonight's debate will tell you everything you need to know.

arsenal · 02-21-2008, 03:27 PM

If you want to get an idea of where the candidates stand, someone in the US did some research on both Clinton and Obama, as far as bills endorsed, submitted, etc.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/20.../807/36/458633

Quote:

The next President is going to have some MAJOR challenges.
I refuse to buy into the hype, on either side, but especially on that of Obama. However the "empty rhetoric" v. "history of accomplishments" arguments have prompted me to check it out on my own, not relying on any candidate's website, book, or worst of all supporters' diaries, like this one.

I have not verified what is stated in the article (blog), so take it for what it is worth.

J pold · 02-21-2008, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

To be honest, you haven't actually attempted to find out where he stands.

How in gods name would you know that?

None of the candidates stand up at their rallies and outline the specifics of their platform.

why wouldn’t you outline your polices to your supporters isn’t that how you get new ones?

They rally their supporters, try to get out that perfect 15 second sound bite for the 6 o clock news.

And if all the candidates do this how is it that when I turn on the news I hear Hilary talking about a universal health care and Obama just saying the word change over and over

Tonight's debate will tell you everything you need to know.

Really well tonight better be different from the last debate I watched which was basically Hillary and Obama taking childish pot shots at each other

...

HotHotHeat · 02-21-2008, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J pold

How in gods name would you know that?

Because you'd know where they stand, and what they've accomplished, if you'd looked.

All I hear when I hear Hillary talk is a raspy voice going on about how she's fought the republican attack machine before.

Azure · 02-21-2008, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Somehow he doesn't strike me as the cooler type.

That being said, Azure, why do you even care about the Democratic primaries? Aren't you as republican as it comes!

I think it'd be great if Obama wins and I have to say it certainly looks as if he will. It's about time the States had someone other than a Bush or Clinton in the White House.

Actually....I wish Ron Paul would win.

But hey....if the US wants to vote in a big spender....so be it.

Azure · 02-21-2008, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nehkara

Obama is more charismatic and a much better speaker than Clinton, this is true. That said, I also believe he is a better candidate overall. I feel like he actually wants the job to do something positive and I think that he is the stronger candidate to face John McCain.

I'm glad for you.

Seriously, at least someone isn't voting for him because he's telling the people want they want to hear. "change"

Yep...he's going to 'change' Washington. He's going to 'change'....the complete political playing field in Washington.

I just hope nobody kills themselves when they find out he's not exactly going to 'change' what they hope he will 'change.'

Quote:

Also, his charisma, character, and speaking ability should help him rebuild the alliances and foreign relations that Bush so thoroughly destroyed.

Yeah...its like Bush ruined those foreign relations because he couldn't speak properly.

And Obama is going to fix them because he knows SO MUCH about foreign relations. I mean...he's a good speaker...what else does he possibly need?

Clever_Iggy · 02-21-2008, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Because you'd know where they stand, and what they've accomplished, if you'd looked.

All I hear when I hear Hillary talk is a raspy voice going on about how she's fought the republican attack machine before.

And all I hear is Obama's charismatic voice trying to jam the word "change" into his speech as many times as possible.

Azure · 02-21-2008, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J pold

And he would also leave Iraqi with no internal control or protection for external threats.

He's not going to 'leave' Iraq until Iraq is ready for the US to leave.

Where has Obama even 'said' he would leave Iraq ASAP?

Seems to me he can't make up his mind about that. Both him and Hillary are avoiding that question when asked.

Azure · 02-21-2008, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

To be honest, you haven't actually attempted to find out where he stands. None of the candidates stand up at their rallies and outline the specifics of their platform. They rally their supporters, try to get out that perfect 15 second sound bite for the 6 o clock news. Tonight's debate will tell you everything you need to know.

Yeah, well if politics in Washington have taught us 'anything'....its that politicians will say ANYTHING to get into power. Obama is doing 'exactly' that.

So....most critical thinking folks are left with one other option outside of listening to a politician tell the people what they want to hear.

Look at his 'record' as a politician. How they voted, etc, etc.

Well....you can't really do that with Obama, now can you?

He has limited experience in Washington....and it is going to be a election issue.

I just hope Obama can step away from the 'change' BS.....and Hillary can quit annoying everyone so greatly.

HotHotHeat · 02-21-2008, 06:44 PM

I definitely agree the rhetoric and BS has to stop.

I'm noticing tonight Obama is going hard after stopping lobbyists and special interest groups. . . Considering how deep lobby groups have dug into Washington, it's a very bold stance. Corporate America must just hate these two.

Azure · 02-21-2008, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

I definitely agree the rhetoric and BS has to stop.

I'm noticing tonight Obama is going hard after stopping lobbyists and special interest groups. . . Considering how deep lobby groups have dug into Washington, it's a very bold stance. Corporate America must just hate these two.

Yeah, and we were worried about the KKK trying to kill him.

J pold · 02-21-2008, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

He's not going to 'leave' Iraq until Iraq is ready for the US to leave.

Where has Obama even 'said' he would leave Iraq ASAP?

Seems to me he can't make up his mind about that. Both him and Hillary are avoiding that question when asked.

Quote:

In his victory speech in Texas Tuesday, Barack Obama promised to end the Iraq war in 2009, a new commitment that parallels recent opinion pieces in The Nation.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n3856640.shtml

2009 isn't ASAP but sure isn't enough time to fix that country. Considering that many Iraqi officials have said that they won't have control of the country until at least 2018

Azure · 02-21-2008, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J pold

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n3856640.shtml

2009 isn't ASAP but sure isn't enough time to fix that country. Considering that many Iraqi officials have said that they won't have control of the country until at least 2018

Right.

Interviewed on Feb. 10 by 60 Minutes’ Steve Kroft, who asked him if he would still implement his plan for withdrawing all U.S. troops from Iraq by 2009, “regardless of the situation? Even if there’s serious sectarian violence?”, Obama said: “No, I always reserve as commander in chief, the right to assess the situation.”

Funny thing was....

In 2006 he said the US should start pulling out by 2007.

2007 he said 2008.

2008 he said 2009.

He has also mentioned 2012.

You see, it favors the Democrats to talk about a withdrawal....but they're never going to commit to something thats not going to happen.

Resolute 14 · 02-23-2008, 01:49 PM

http://www.hillaryismomjeans.com/

Vulcan · 02-23-2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

Right.

Interviewed on Feb. 10 by 60 Minutes’ Steve Kroft, who asked him if he would still implement his plan for withdrawing all U.S. troops from Iraq by 2009, “regardless of the situation? Even if there’s serious sectarian violence?”, Obama said: “No, I always reserve as commander in chief, the right to assess the situation.”

Funny thing was....

In 2006 he said the US should start pulling out by 2007.

2007 he said 2008.

2008 he said 2009.

He has also mentioned 2012.

You see, it favors the Democrats to talk about a withdrawal....but they're never going to commit to something thats not going to happen.

It may be true that Obama won't get out of Iraq right away but his plan seems to be to get out as soon as possible. McCain seems to think it's fine to have a permanent conflict. Meanwhile the war is draining the US dry and turning into more of an economic disaster the longer it goes on. As to the logistics of the war and the American generals saying it is going well since the surge, Iraq's estimate of 2018 doesn't sound promising. This doesn't even bring into consideration the growth and refinement of terrorism, the longer it goes on.

Azure · 02-23-2008, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vulcan

It may be true that Obama won't get out of Iraq right away but his plan seems to be to get out as soon as possible. McCain seems to think it's fine to have a permanent conflict. Meanwhile the war is draining the US dry and turning into more of an economic disaster the longer it goes on. As to the logistics of the war and the American generals saying it is going well since the surge, Iraq's estimate of 2018 doesn't sound promising. This doesn't even bring into consideration the growth and refinement of terrorism, the longer it goes on.

Yeah...McCain is going to initiate combat to make sure that US troops fight 'forever.'

Believe it or not....both are going to do the exact same thing. Keep the troops there until the Iraqi Government is capable of running the country...and then restrict them to permanent bases.

Obama had an estimate of 2012 going at one point...I bet that doesn't sound promising either.

Again, I hope nobody kills themselves when Obama doesn't 'change' everything they wanted 'changed.'

BTW....you might want to double check your point about a longer conflict resulting in terrorism growth and refinement. By all accounts, Al Queda has been 'massively' crippled in Iraq. And somehow I doubt they have the resources to keep fighting like the US does. Even if it costs a few million per minute.

When Obama invades Pakistan its going to cost a few billion per minute.

Hack&Lube · 02-23-2008, 05:31 PM

Obama likes to say change and new quite freqentely, he also uses the word politics in a very strange, plural way. I'm not sure if it's grammatically correct.

IE: "We've got to get a new kind of politics in government, we've got to change the politics of fear. We've got to get a politics of cooperation".

Azure · 02-23-2008, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Obama likes to say change and new quite freqentely, he also uses the word politics in a very strange, plural way. I'm not sure if it's grammatically correct.

IE: "We've got to get a new kind of politics in government, we've got to change the politics of fear. We've got to get a politics of cooperation".

Yeah, and it seems to be exactly what people want to hear.

RougeUnderoos · 02-23-2008, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

When Obama invades Pakistan its going to cost a few billion per minute.

Where you come up with this nonsense? Invade Pakistan? Maybe you can back that "point" up? Keep in mind that the rest of us know how to read too.

Azure · 02-23-2008, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Where you come up with this nonsense? Invade Pakistan? Maybe you can back that "point" up? Keep in mind that the rest of us know how to read too.

I think Obama pretty clearly said he would invade Pakistan WITHOUT approval of the Pakistani government to strike at Al Queda targets.

Oh right, the link.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3434573&page=1