Busted!

[SaskaBushFire]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Take a look at Corporatejay's avatar....

I have avatars and sigs turned off..

I understand your point, it sucks for you to bust your ass off to have some clown plagarise and then get a better mark, hurting yours. All I am saying is that it isn't always a malicious act, some kids crack under pressure, some aren't lazy, some had 4 papers due that week. It is never acceptable, I am just saying that I can sympathize with these kids. You can't tell me that I am not allowed to, it is my opinion and I am most certainly entitled to it.

[Dr GonZo]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

the academic code of conduct of most universities prohibits you from earning "double credit". While you can use the same ideas/research, you can't use one paper for two classes.

I don't know where this fits in, but currently I'm finishing off my master thesis for two master programs within the business administration master, namely strategic and marketing management. I needed a grant from the examination commission, but basically I'm writing one thesis for two diplomas. I have followed all courses for both masters, but there is a ruling that you can write one single thesis for a dual master studies, as long as it's relevant to both programs.

[Dr GonZo]

Originally Posted by SaskaBushFire

All I am saying is that it isn't always a malicious act, some kids crack under pressure, some aren't lazy, some had 4 papers due that week.

I've never liked this excuse. A school's administration has developed its program based on estimated workload, which in turn is based on past experience and expected performance; usually when some student is short on time, it's his/her own fault (e.g. bad planning/partying too hard/just doesn't have what it takes). Moreover, if the workload indeed is too high, then wouldn't much more, if not most, be tempted or even be forced to plagarize?

[SaskaBushFire]

Funny as I am reading this very thread this happens:

I just wrote a mid term for a fairly difficult class, the test was easier than I thought it would be and I think I did fairly well. As I sit in the comp lab reading calgarypuck.com a few people from my class are chatting about the test. One asks the other if they did good, if "it" helped. The other replied "yes there was only a few different ones" The first person's buddy goes "oh they never changed the test?" "not by much and (name) gave me his old test, I think only 3 or 4 of us had it in the class so it should help."

These people had last years test, virtually the same, to study off of. I am sitting here with 4 people who will get a better mark then me hurting my mark and I have to stomach it. Such is life, and life goes on.

This also makes me think that plagarism happens a lot more than you think it does, and you get hurt by this affect more often than you know it. It is just the sting of knowing somebody else did it that actually turns people against the notion I believe.

[kermitology]

^^^ I wouldn't say that's plagiarism. It's more a case of they were lucky to get a previous test before hand and the professor is lazy enough not to change questions.

It's very common to study off of old tests. I did it all the time in Engineering, and many of my professors would post the old tests for you to work on. While it sometimes helps you, it still comes down to knowing your stuff in order to do well.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by kermitology

^^^ I wouldn't say that's plagiarism. It's more a case of they were lucky to get a previous test before hand and the professor is lazy enough not to change questions.

It's very common to study off of old tests. I did it all the time in Engineering, and many of my professors would post the old tests for you to work on. While it sometimes helps you, it still comes down to knowing your stuff in order to do well.

Completely agree with Kermitology here (probalby because I'm an engineer here too).

Profs hand out old tests all the time. Hell I had one prof who let us take whatever we wanted into the tests so me and a bunch of buddies rounded up final exams of his that dated back to 1983 (this was in 2002 and the exams were all readily available through the engineering student's society) and made up a binder with completed examples of the 15 or so types of questions he tended to ask on his finals, and when the time for the finals came, I all of the questions on the test were altered versions of the 15 questions we had. Plagarism? Of course not. Cheating? Nope, not that either, as the prof said we could do it.

Plagarism is taking credit for other peoples work, getting old tests is just a smart way to study. Besides, when was the last time your boss told you you couldn't look something up?

[ernie]

Originally Posted by kermitology

^^^ I wouldn't say that's plagiarism. It's more a case of they were lucky to get a previous test before hand and the professor is lazy enough not to change questions.

It's very common to study off of old tests. I did it all the time in Engineering, and many of my professors would post the old tests for you to work on. While it sometimes helps you, it still comes down to knowing your stuff in order to do well.

Unless the prof specifically has asked to have all tests handed in after people receiving marks and having a look (I've had a couple of profs do this) there isn't anything wrong with it (i.e. it was a stolen test they were using). A past exam is really just a good study aid. Those people still needed to go in and write the answers down to the questions they had studied before hand. If they've written the answers correctly they have successfully learned the material the prof wanted them to learn.

heck didn't everybody use an Edge book for high school diploma exams? I know I certainly did and it was very much encouraged by the teachers and school that students purchase the Edge book consisting of the last handful diploma exams.

Along the lines of profs giving out old exams etc. I had a course in my major that had a typically brutal final (talking average of 20-30% year after year). You were allowed to bring in any class notes and two reference books to this test and still the marks were low. When a few of us were studying for the exam the night before we noticed that every day the prof had handed out a sheet with two problems on it...one on the front side and one on the back side. They were problems from an alternate text to the course and text we used for the prereq. While looking at these problems we noticed that he only ever covered one of them in class and completely ignored the other. We had a number of these unanswered problems and by the time the second/third week of the semester rolled around you started to not even look at them outside of class (the class also had a brutal lab that took way too much of your time).

Based on past averages, bringing in notes and texts/references wasn't providing a lot of help and, if it was, it was taking too long for people to find what they needed. We took a wild stab and decided the exam may be coming from these unanswered questions and we'd bring in the answer manual as one of our texts (dogeared at the appropriate pages). People were saying we were crazy and that he'd never allow a solutions manual into the exam.

As we entered the exam hall we asked the prof whether or not we could bring in the solutions manual for this particular test. He gave a knowing grin and said "looks like a reference book to me and it might even be helpful".

Needless to say the 3 of us aced the exam and blew any chance of scaling the marks up for the other students. Man were they pissed.

University isn't about learning everything in the notes and texts, it's figuring out the systems and patterns so you know what to concentrate on during your studying. It's about figuring out what you can blow off or do half assed and what you can't.

[SaskaBushFire]

Forgot to add that the student who got the exam kept it illegally because previous exams were requested and the prof specifically said that she did not hand out old tests, probably for this reason.

So they were not SUPPOSED to have that test and it should have never been obtained by the student. Once again, still the profs fault, and as I said above I am well over it and I can deal with it. I couldn't imagine how others in this thread would react though, probably through forms of terrorism based on their reactions to my previous comments.

[rawr]

How about this one?

I'm a student at the University of Waterloo and for one of my courses the PROF PLAGIARIZED. And this is not something that just I know but the whole class knows. This prof was one of those who had a very boring teaching style (read off the slides) so the class was lacking as it was. Our first assignment comes and we're absolutely blindsided; no one knows how to do it. His notes, tips, nothing help. So we all turn to the internet and it turns out he copied, word for word, every question of the assignment from previous assignments belonging to profs at other universities (Michigan, Alberta, Connecticut etc..). Along with the questions of course come the answers which help the students but that's beside the point. This continues for all the assignments released during the course. Of course, everyone is a little frustrated with this and we ask him how much of his own work has he done on the course. He says "50/50" lying through his teeth and claims he had too little time. Well nevertheless students have to prepare for the final exam which is open book and open notes. What everyone does is simply go to the sites he previously stole questions from and print off all the solutions to the other questions. Sure enough almost all of the questions we had printed off in preperation appeared on the final. The worst part is that he puts copyright at the bottom of all of 'his work' stating that no one can reproduce it.

I mean, how can someone be so lazy to not even write his own question for HIS course? I know teaching may not be your number one priority at the university but at least put some effort into the course. I have notified the Director of my program who has failed to do much. I'm considering informing the Dean or perhaps even notifying the professors that had their work stolen from. I'm not for giving my university a bad name but something has to be done. Professors should be held to the same standard students are. What do you guys think I should do?

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by rawr

I'm not for giving my university a bad name but something has to be done. Professors should be held to the same standard students are. What do you guys think I should do?

I'd set up a fake email account pretending to be my prof and email the universities & profs that he stole the work from claiming that THEY stole it. Include scans of the handouts with the copyright notice on them as proof that they stole it.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by SaskaBushFire

Forgot to add that the student who got the exam kept it illegally because previous exams were requested and the prof specifically said that she did not hand out old tests, probably for this reason.

So they were not SUPPOSED to have that test and it should have never been obtained by the student. Once again, still the profs fault, and as I said above I am well over it and I can deal with it. I couldn't imagine how others in this thread would react though, probably through forms of terrorism based on their reactions to my previous comments.

Still not the other student's fault. If you get a copy of an old exam because you know someone who has taken the course before, it's fair game. It's not like they stole it from the prof.

Just because the prof doesn't give out old exams doesn't mean that it's illegal to have a copy of it.

[Buff]

My friend was a student marker for a 1st year programming class. He had to mark programs based on successfully running as intended and he had to mark the code too. He caught six people with the exact same code... they all forgot to change the name of the coder in the comments in the code.

I later worked with the guy who coded the program. It was stolen from him when he left his computer in the lab to go to the washroom. He wasn't smart enough to lock the computer when he left. One guy stole the code, handed it to the other four and they all handed it in as their own. They weren't smart enough to look at the code and see the original coder's name in the comments, or the coder's whitty remarks in the comments either.

I don't know what became of the cheaters, but the guy who had it stolen from got a zero on that project. He says that he never noticed anybody missing from class so they likely didn't get into big trouble.

[Clarkey]

Originally Posted by ernie

Unless the prof specifically has asked to have all tests handed in after people receiving marks and having a look (I've had a couple of profs do this) there isn't anything wrong with it (i.e. it was a stolen test they were using). A past exam is really just a good study aid. Those people still needed to go in and write the answers down to the questions they had studied before hand. If they've written the answers correctly they have successfully learned the material the prof wanted them to learn.

heck didn't everybody use an Edge book for high school diploma exams? I know I certainly did and it was very much encouraged by the teachers and school that students purchase the Edge book consisting of the last handful diploma exams.

Along the lines of profs giving out old exams etc. I had a course in my major that had a typically brutal final (talking average of 20-30% year after year). You were allowed to bring in any class notes and two reference books to this test and still the marks were low. When a few of us were studying for the exam the night before we noticed that every day the prof had handed out a sheet with two problems on it...one on the front side and one on the back side. They were problems from an alternate text to the course and text we used for the prereq. While looking at these problems we noticed that he only ever covered one of them in class and completely ignored the other. We had a number of these unanswered problems and by the time the second/third week of the semester rolled around you started to not even look at them outside of class (the class also had a brutal lab that took way too much of your time).

Based on past averages, bringing in notes and texts/references wasn't providing a lot of help and, if it was, it was taking too long for people to find what they needed. We took a wild stab and decided the exam may be coming from these unanswered questions and we'd bring in the answer manual as one of our texts (dogeared at the appropriate pages). People were saying we were crazy and that he'd never allow a solutions manual into the exam.

As we entered the exam hall we asked the prof whether or not we could bring in the solutions manual for this particular test. He gave a knowing grin and said "looks like a reference book to me and it might even be helpful".

Needless to say the 3 of us aced the exam and blew any chance of scaling the marks up for the other students. Man were they pissed.

University isn't about learning everything in the notes and texts, it's figuring out the systems and patterns so you know what to concentrate on during your studying. It's about figuring out what you can blow off or do half assed and what you can't.

That's a load of crappola and your professor is a moron. Maybe if you were taking a class in "how to entertain the loser egghead professor by figuring out how he's gamed the system" then that would be a worthy lesson. Otherwise that guy is a big tool.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Still not the other student's fault. If you get a copy of an old exam because you know someone who has taken the course before, it's fair game. It's not like they stole it from the prof.

Just because the prof doesn't give out old exams doesn't mean that it's illegal to have a copy of it.

I hate plagarism but I feel the same way you do about this test situation. It seems to me there is a very fine line being drawn, I do feel that the test is fair game however I do feel that it is an unfair advantage for the students over other students. A resource at their disposal that others don't have, it is similar to only allowing half of the class the text book. If this test is available to some then the prof should make it available to all to study off of, or change her tests.

SaskaBushFire: I would alert your prof of the situation via email and just tell her that she might want to change her tests for the future.

I wouldn't worry to much about it though, studying an old test vs. studying the material isn't a huge advantage, as long as you did your homework I am sure you can match their scores.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

That's a load of crappola and your professor is a moron. Maybe if you were taking a class in "how to entertain the loser egghead professor by figuring out how he's gamed the system" then that would be a worthy lesson. Otherwise that guy is a big tool.

It's not a load of crap. It's completely true.

The point of how he taught the course was the need to learn the fundamentals of the subject and everything else can be found in the literature or through references (for this course...his other course I took was different). He didn't believe there should be any need for someone to memorize every single detail if they could simply apply first principles.

I should add that while the solutions manual certainly helped in telling you what the answer the other half to each question was explaining WHY it happened the way it did (not in the solutions manual). To be successful on the exam you needed to know both, but to answer the second part you'd need to answer the first part. And to answer the first part without a proper reference book you hadn't a hope of memorizing everything...you only had a hope of knowing a tiny fraction of it.

That was the entire point of the course. Don't get bogged down in all the tiny details, don't get frustrated if you don't know the entire answer but instead make sure you have a rock solid foundation to your understanding as that, in the end, is what is important. It was THE course that for the major (if you took it) taught you that the first thing to do when you don't know something is not to ask a friend, not to find an old exam, not to find an old assignment, not to go to the prof, not to throw your hands u in the air and give up but instead to hit the library and reference books, find it for yourself and knowing the first principles understand why.

As a TA for 4 years during grad school it is frightening how many students hadn't learned that lesson and instead wasted time going down all these other avenues...even in their final year! Heck, it takes many grad students a year or two to effectively use references and library resources. I for one was glad to be taught that lesson prior to grad school as were the other in that course. It was a huge help for grad courses and candidacy.

He's not a moron. His teaching awards and research awards speak for themselves. He uses the course to get the above point across. It's an important point and he crafted the course perfectly to demostrate it. A few of us just figured out his point before the rest of the class who learned the lesson on the final when the large amjority of students that have taken the course learned the lesson (the final btw was worth less than the lab of the course and less than the midterm and wasn't necessary to pass in order to pass the course so he doesn't screw anybody in teaching this lesson).

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by rawr

How about this one?

I'm a student at the University of Waterloo and for one of my courses the PROF PLAGIARIZED. And this is not something that just I know but the whole class knows. This prof was one of those who had a very boring teaching style (read off the slides) so the class was lacking as it was. Our first assignment comes and we're absolutely blindsided; no one knows how to do it. His notes, tips, nothing help. So we all turn to the internet and it turns out he copied, word for word, every question of the assignment from previous assignments belonging to profs at other universities (Michigan, Alberta, Connecticut etc..). Along with the questions of course come the answers which help the students but that's beside the point. This continues for all the assignments released during the course. Of course, everyone is a little frustrated with this and we ask him how much of his own work has he done on the course. He says "50/50" lying through his teeth and claims he had too little time. Well nevertheless students have to prepare for the final exam which is open book and open notes. What everyone does is simply go to the sites he previously stole questions from and print off all the solutions to the other questions. Sure enough almost all of the questions we had printed off in preperation appeared on the final. The worst part is that he puts copyright at the bottom of all of 'his work' stating that no one can reproduce it.

I mean, how can someone be so lazy to not even write his own question for HIS course? I know teaching may not be your number one priority at the university but at least put some effort into the course. I have notified the Director of my program who has failed to do much. I'm considering informing the Dean or perhaps even notifying the professors that had their work stolen from. I'm not for giving my university a bad name but something has to be done. Professors should be held to the same standard students are. What do you guys think I should do?

You gotta run this through the school's administration, I'd love to see lazy buttholes like that get hammered. There has always been a double standard that profs can not take their courses seriously, so the the student has to over compensate for a lazy prof.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

But as a matter of fact, it is possible to plagiarize work that you did yourself--for instance, by using a paper that you wrote for one class to satisfy the requirements of another.

I plagiarized myself once. In grade 11 biology I wrote a paper on Diabetes for which I received a B. In my third year of university, I reformatted the same paper and changed a few dates (with reference to recent research) for submission for a mandatory "Science for B.A. students" class. I received an A for the paper. I don't feel guilty in the slightest as I have a funny story to bring up when discussing plagiarism.