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Old 10-01-2007, 07:22 PM   #81
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Now I'm no lawyer, but I don't think "gruesomeness" is a decider in what charges get laid. I think it's about pre-meditation and planning, but I ain't sure.
You're right. But in many countries, if a murder is particularly savage (rape, vicious type of murder), the charges can be upped to first degree murder to account for the heinous nature of the assault (depending on the state). You can bet in most US states, they'd go for first degree and settle for second, whereas here, this waste of skin will likely end up with some level of manslaughter.

In Italy, for example, it is the maximum sentence if "through insidious means" or "for abject or futile motives"

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Old 10-01-2007, 07:22 PM   #82
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Now I'm no lawyer, but I don't think "gruesomeness" is a decider in what charges get laid. I think it's about pre-meditation and planning, but I ain't sure.
Yeah since when did "gruesomeness" have anything to do with anything?
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Old 10-01-2007, 07:23 PM   #83
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I hope they catch the guy and toss him in jail, in fact toss his parents in jail too, if he is underage they should be held responsible too.
LOL...

This is the Canadian justice system. The most he'll get is six months probation.
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Old 10-01-2007, 07:29 PM   #84
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In all honesty this kid is going to get 15 years or so and be out in 10. He's 19...so he'll be missing arguably the best ten years of his life...a pretty stiff punishment when you consider this. I know that the family will suffer long after this, and I know that no sentence is ever adequate in some peoples minds. But at the same time, unless it can be shown that this was pre-meditated in any way or something similar then it was a moment of sheer stupidity by a teenager in some ways.

This is a heinous act, and I don't mean to undermine that fact.
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Old 10-01-2007, 07:40 PM   #85
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Miljevic. Is that a croatian name? Mango?


It is most likely Serbian, as there is actually a region in Montenegro that uses that family name.

http://nona.net/features/map/placede...Miljevi%C4%87/

There is also a tennis player from Serbia with that name.
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Old 10-01-2007, 07:48 PM   #86
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In all honesty this kid is going to get 15 years or so and be out in 10. He's 19...so he'll be missing arguably the best ten years of his life...a pretty stiff punishment when you consider this. I know that the family will suffer long after this, and I know that no sentence is ever adequate in some peoples minds. But at the same time, unless it can be shown that this was pre-meditated in any way or something similar then it was a moment of sheer stupidity by a teenager in some ways.

This is a heinous act, and I don't mean to undermine that fact.
And the victim? His best years were ahead of him, too.
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Old 10-01-2007, 07:53 PM   #87
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And the victim? His best years were ahead of him, too.

Yes, I don't deny that one at all. I guess this is where it comes down to your view of how justice should be meted out; either rehabilitation/control or vengance. I don't have the answer for everyone here, but I know where I fall on that scale.
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Old 10-01-2007, 09:00 PM   #88
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Holy crap! HOSER! I haven't thought about that guy in years! I live about 4 houses down from where he used to live. Wow, was that a scarey guy when you were a small child. Were you one of his "victims"?
Haha, well I once wrote a short story recollecting my thoughts about my childhood, and one part included Hoser... here is an excerpt.

--

You see, we lived in this area for a good 10 years, from about grade 3 - 11, and Hoser was the token creepy old man. His house was a spooky place painted a menacing 'foreigner's pink' that sat on the entrance to a gravel alley. His windows were always covered up with cardboard from the inside to cover where the eggs and rocks had broken through the glass. Egging Hoser's place was one of the great rights of passage in our generation, and was obviously a tradition that was held with great seriousness, as half of his roofing tiles and siding planks were covered with the sun-baked spoils of a child's tomfoolery. Also, his lawn was perfect and he was always growing many types of plants in the soil directly in front of his house.

In his back yard there was a garage, a chicken wire and cheap wood fence, a menacing greenhouse, a lot more plants, and a 1950ish baby blue pick up truck with the name HOSER spray painted across the tailgate in dark green. I'm sure it didn't run, but it did bear the solemn job of announcing who lived there, and we all knew it well.

The truck was a thing of beauty, but the greenhouse... ahhh, the greenhouse. That was the source of Hoser's power. We would stay up all hours of the night during sleepovers trying to scare each other with ghost stories, but the only ones that ever worked were the tales where we would make up what we thought was hidden behind the rickety plastic door of that damn greenhouse. Was it a torture chamber? Or an experimental laboratory? Maybe it was the centre of his drug growing operation... no, it had to be where he cooked stray animals and children!

We all hated that greenhouse.

And it would be the scene of one of the most important events of my childhood.

BUT! Before I get into that, I want to explain a little more about the man that owed it in order to set up the atmosphere properly. You may be wondering to yourself, why did everyone throw rocks and eggs at his house? Why did everyone call him Hoser? And why did everyone seem so afraid of this man?

All good questions. Here are my lame answers.

Hoser's real name was Csaba Goczan (Pronounced CHA-BA GOCK-ZAN); I learned this from a classmate who lived directly beside him. They had to serve him with a subpoena for stealing electricity from them by plugging his lawnmower in to mow his lawn. Csaba got the name Hoser some six years before we moved into the area by going around to all of the houses in the neighbourhood, pilfering lawn and garden equipment for his personal stash. I heard that when they sent him to jail, they auctioned off all of the repossessed goods at the community centre and it collected enough to build the paved hockey rink with real wood boards AND the zamboni that maintained the ice in the winter. Crazy er, who steals that many hoses?

People threw eggs and rocks at his house because he eventually came back to live in the community after he served his time, and a few people were still pissed off at him. It made him an easy target for abuse: "lonely foreigner who steals from you" apparently equates to "break his ". Understandably so, Csaba did not take kindly to people abusing his property the way that they did, even if he was a crazy that had a lawn equipment fetish. If he ever caught you throwing things at his house, he would chase after you, and you would run like hell.

Why? Because Csaba was about 5'8", with a portly and strong build, around 180 lbs thick, with tanned Romanian looking skin, balding head of white hair (kind of like the dad from Everybody loves Raymond), and always wore the same blue jacket/grey pants/angry as hell face. We knew his mannerisms well, as we would always follow him and watch as he waited for his bus at seemingly random intervals during the week. Where did you always go Hoser? One time I saw him drinking a coffee outside a Cinnabon, but I am sure his daily tasks involved much more evil than that brief interlude.

His other distinguishing feature, which added to his bad-ass-itude, was a dent in his left forehead that looked deep enough to bake a cupcake in. When my friend's brother, David, was our age, Csaba caught him and a friend egging his house. Hoser then came out and yelled in a thick East European accent "Ey! You Fuggin Assolez!" and ran after them full speed. Well, he caught them, and started choking David's friend until he turned blue. David freaked out and grabbed a brick that was laying next to a lamp post, and hurled it at Hoser's then smooth forehead; the rest is history.

The one time Hoser had caught us throwing eggs at his house, that incident flashed into my head. We jumped on our bikes and booted it down the street in the opposite direction, towards an alleyway. My brother ditched out along the way and ran into our backyard, I learned that he had stayed in the shed with hedge clippers ready for almost half an hour. The rest of the guys in the group followed me around the corner into the alley, before we went in I saw that Hoser hadn't closed even half the distance and that he was just walking like Jason Voorhees would while in pursuit of his next kill. It was weird, but it would buy us some time. We gathered up and tried to decide what to do, but before we got anywhere, Hoser came striding around the corner! He was less than 20 feet away in mere seconds from where I saw him before. Much like Jason Voorhees would be. This scared the crap out of me so I just got on my bike and rode it all the way down to the river where I just hid in the bush until sundown. I swore on my life at the time that I was going to be found face down in the water somewhere for egging the poor 's house. Before I went home that night I left a snickers bar in his mailbox with a note that said sorry as a peace offering.

Back to the Greenhouse. We were coming of age and had done the egg thing before. It was just after we had learned of Hoser's real name, and our thirst for knowledge of the mysterious beast grew evermore. We decided that it would be a good idea to find out once and for all what was inside the walls of his greenhouse.

We waited and watched him get on his bus one summer morning to make sure we would have enough time to check things out, and not die in the process. This was a very real concern. On our way through the alley, I was fully expecting to find a weed grow-op in there.

It was myself, and two other friends that took the adventure on head first. Our plan was to gain entrance to the greenhouse by getting into the backyard through the garage. The side door was unlocked, and what awaited us was one of the most unholy scenes of my life. It was dark, and everything had a layer of grimy dust as thick as a nickel. Rusty garden tools hung on the walls, and another out of commission truck (half dismantled - much like we would be if we got caught) took up most of the space. We got the out of there as quickly as possible to the welcoming warmth of his back yard. It was cluttered, and all the space was devoted to gardens of various types, some of the plants were taller than me (4'10" at the time). There was a padlock, left open, "guarding" the entrance to the greenhouse. It was now or never.

Steve carefully took the lock out of the bolt as if were going to explode in his face or set off an air raid siren when he touched it. He gently creaked the door open and we stepped inside.

There was no torture chamber, experimental lab, drug operation, or Chinese food kitchen in there. There were only fledgling tomato plants.

We left the greenhouse, disappointed somehow, put the lock back on and exited once more through the garage. It wasn't scary the second time through.

What I realized in there was that Csaba wasn't Hoser, our imaginations were Hoser. Csaba was Csaba. And Csaba was a tired and lonely old man that had a love for giving things life, and nurturing them in his gardens. I had stinging regret, and still do, every time I think about what little s we were to him growing up. Every time I think about Hoser now, I wonder what his life was like before he came to our country, and what he contemplated while he grew his plants given the way his life had played out.

Last time I heard anything about him was about a year ago. His brother had committed him to a mental institution.

Kids can be so cruel.
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Old 10-01-2007, 09:14 PM   #89
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wow i used to know this guy. i went to the same junior high as him and took the same bus with him. there used to be about 10 of us that'd talk in the back of the bus in those days and he was one of them. i was never really friends with him but talked to him a few times and im absolutely shocked. can't believe that happened to him. its so weird.
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Old 10-01-2007, 09:20 PM   #90
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It's not unfounded. SeeGeeWhy says it all in his above post. Things really started getting bad around the late 90s and not much has changed since.

We had a grow-op on our block that was shut down a few years ago, and the house across the alley from mine was another grow-op that had been shut down a few years before that. I remember a flyer going around the community urging residents to contact police about some known dealer houses that were operating in Queensland, but nothing was being done about them.
Do you remeber the guy that went around the neighbourhood stealing peoples garden hoses?
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Old 10-01-2007, 09:23 PM   #91
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Excellent post SeeGeeWhy. It's quite funny how your imagination can lead you on so many adventures as a child. Always stretching and inventing things. Such a mindset is lost quickly as one gets older and starts to see things as they really are without the childhood fantasy, like in the somber ending of your story.
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Old 10-01-2007, 09:29 PM   #92
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Do you remeber the guy that went around the neighbourhood stealing peoples garden hoses?
Who could forget Hoser?
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Old 10-01-2007, 09:31 PM   #93
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[Mod edit- there's no need to quote an entire post; especially one that long.]

Never heard that story before. In a way I kind of explains who he was.

Did catch him in my front yard looking at my sprinker. Chased him off but never gave it a thought. Only when neighbourhood hoses were disappearing did things start to click. Soon after the police arrested him.

I lived on Queensland place and would see him everyday walking down the alley behind the strip mall on his way to the bus stop.

Kids near by would tease him mercifly - to a point where he would get very angry. In a way I felt sorry for him.
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Old 10-01-2007, 10:39 PM   #94
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Do you remeber the guy that went around the neighbourhood stealing peoples garden hoses?
Haha yeah! If you could I.D. your hose you got it back. "It's long, green and tubular...?"

You lived on 200 Queensland Place? I was 300. Our block had the Novaks on the corner, who stuck a bunch of nails and spikes in his front lawn because he was pissed about kids driving their bikes up on his grass a little bit while going around the corner. Wanted to pop their tires, but my brothers friend wiped out and almost fell into the death patch and his folks called the cops. Needless to say the cops weren't too impressed.

Good story SeeGeeWhy.
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Old 10-01-2007, 10:39 PM   #95
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I'm sorry to say that I knew the killer, not well though. From elementary untill high school (untill he got expelled, big shocker).

He was even on my soccer team at one point.

By the way, the rumor is that he was high on crack...
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Old 10-01-2007, 11:37 PM   #96
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Haha yeah! If you could I.D. your hose you got it back. "It's long, green and tubular...?"

You lived on 200 Queensland Place? I was 300. Our block had the Novaks on the corner, who stuck a bunch of nails and spikes in his front lawn because he was pissed about kids driving their bikes up on his grass a little bit while going around the corner. Wanted to pop their tires, but my brothers friend wiped out and almost fell into the death patch and his folks called the cops. Needless to say the cops weren't too impressed.

Good story SeeGeeWhy.
Yup, 200 it was - lived in a duplex. Had a lady next door that smoked weed all the time. I'd be sitting at my work desk working and the smell would waft through my open window. Got high for free

The Hoser was quite brave too. He took the neighbours hose and sprinkler in broad daylight. Lady next door turned it on to water her grass. Went in to get a beer and a sandwhich, came out minutes later and the hose and sprinkler were gone
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Old 10-01-2007, 11:55 PM   #97
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That isn't a fair statement by any means. Some suburbs are dangerous. Some are very safe. Most communities see a spike in their crime rate during the transformation from being a "young neighborhood" to a "mature neighborhood" due to the prevalence of teenagers and apathetic me-first parents. I feel much safer walking around at night in Braeside, Oakridge, Citadel, Edgemont or Woodbine than I do in the Beltline, Sunnyside or Erlton... not to mention the usual suspects like Bowness, Montgomery, Forest Lawn, Dover, The "Properties"... all of which pre-exist the modern suburb.
It was kind of tongue in cheek.
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Old 10-02-2007, 02:34 PM   #98
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Well, I wish I could defend Queensland more, but as I type this, there is a drug bust going on across the street. 6 Tac Team vehicles along with canine units, about 7 marked cop cars and 4 or 5 unmarked ones. Along with that are probably 5 or 6 City of Calgary buliding inspection people.

This is nuts out front of my house. I can't even get out of my driveway to go to school (darn!).
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Old 10-02-2007, 03:12 PM   #99
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Well, I wish I could defend Queensland more, but as I type this, there is a drug bust going on across the street. 6 Tac Team vehicles along with canine units, about 7 marked cop cars and 4 or 5 unmarked ones. Along with that are probably 5 or 6 City of Calgary buliding inspection people.

This is nuts out front of my house. I can't even get out of my driveway to go to school (darn!).
Tell them to get the hell out of the way.

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Old 10-02-2007, 03:12 PM   #100
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Was he a wingnut?

Also, it is not suprising you are associated with the murderer due to that music you listen to.
Oh, gawd.

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