Terrorist to hit around election!!!

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by Table 5@Oct 24 2004, 11:15 PM

you guys arent the ones sleeping with cats are you?

You of all people shouldn't be questioning our bestiality tendencies.....goat boy.

[BillW]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos+Oct 24 2004, 11:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RougeUnderoos @ Oct 24 2004, 11:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-sjwalter@Oct 24 2004, 11:34 AM
What would you have done? Bush showed resiliance when he continued reading, showed he can lead a nation, showed that he isn't going to be afraid to back the terrorists down. And don't BS me, how do you expect Bush to react, run out of the room screaming his head off? He is President of the strongest country in the world, should he show he is afraid? Don't listen to everything that the left wing media tells you, because that is one of the weakest attacks they have made.

Lol. Someone called you a stooge the other day. I thought it was kind of harsh, but really, it's the only word that fits.

You are aware, I'm sure, that there are more than 2 options. He doesn't have to sit there reading the book, and he doesn't have to run out of the room screaming his head off. How about he stands up, says "sorry kids, but I have to go" and walks out of the room. What's wrong with that? [/b][/quote]
You make an assumption you know what the Secret Service told him to do. Having just spent 4 hours working with the Secret Service yesterday helping with crowd control of 18,000 when an aircraft penetrated the President’ Temporary Flight Restriction area, I have a fairly good idea how they operate.

SOP (standard operating procedure for those not familiar with governmental operations) is that the Secret Service makes no changes in plans without everyone on the team being brought up to speed. The President was in a safe place at the time and the agents would need at least 5 minutes to resecure either of the routes back to the airport and the perimeter of the school before they would allow the President to move. They prefer to do that in both a calm atmosphere and raising as little notice or suspicion as possible since the most secured public area is still considered an observed and watched area. In this particular case, hundreds of law enforcement officers, Air Force One flight crew, as well as all local detail agents would need to be briefed on the new plans and positioned as needed. Even the ground crew of AF1 would need to modify preflight schedules and possibly take on additional fuel for flight to multiple alternate airports.

You must also understand that since Presidential and Executive Security was moved under the Treasure / Secret Service in the early 1900s, they are the one group that legally has ultimate veto power over the President when it comes to his personal safety. My hunch, backed up by several of my former Secret Service friends, is that Card told the President what had happened and relayed instructions from the Secret Service to stall 5 minutes while they completed evacuation arrangements. Under those circumstances, it would take a tremendous poker player with nerves of steel to be able to concentrate on acting like nothing was happening while also knowing that the next public statement you are about to make in 5-10 minutes and composing in your mind is about to be heard by the entire world unfiltered.

The principle and teacher with the President at the time were both lifelong Democrat and NEA supporters, yet they have both changed their minds and become very strong supporters of the President as well as Jeb when he took his stand against the NEA in 2002. This was based on their inside knowledge and observations of the actual activities at the time.

I wouldn’t call you a stooge, but I would assume you to be rather naive to think that you understand all of the backstage logistics involved in Presidential security.

[arsenal]

That post has made the most sense yet.
After the second plane hit, they obviously knew what was going on. Have to make adjustments, to make sure they can get the President out safely and on AF1.

The simplest explanation is probably the correct one. That is the simplest explenation.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by BillW+Oct 24 2004, 07:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BillW @ Oct 24 2004, 07:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Lol. Someone called you a stooge the other day. I thought it was kind of harsh, but really, it's the only word that fits.

You are aware, I'm sure, that there are more than 2 options. He doesn't have to sit there reading the book, and he doesn't have to run out of the room screaming his head off. How about he stands up, says "sorry kids, but I have to go" and walks out of the room. What's wrong with that?

You make an assumption you know what the Secret Service told him to do. Having just spent 4 hours working with the Secret Service yesterday helping with crowd control of 18,000 when an aircraft penetrated the President’ Temporary Flight Restriction area, I have a fairly good idea how they operate.

SOP (standard operating procedure for those not familiar with governmental operations) is that the Secret Service makes no changes in plans without everyone on the team being brought up to speed. The President was in a safe place at the time and the agents would need at least 5 minutes to resecure either of the routes back to the airport and the perimeter of the school before they would allow the President to move. They prefer to do that in both a calm atmosphere and raising as little notice or suspicion as possible since the most secured public area is still considered an observed and watched area. In this particular case, hundreds of law enforcement officers, Air Force One flight crew, as well as all local detail agents would need to be briefed on the new plans and positioned as needed. Even the ground crew of AF1 would need to modify preflight schedules and possibly take on additional fuel for flight to multiple alternate airports.

You must also understand that since Presidential and Executive Security was moved under the Treasure / Secret Service in the early 1900s, they are the one group that legally has ultimate veto power over the President when it comes to his personal safety. My hunch, backed up by several of my former Secret Service friends, is that Card told the President what had happened and relayed instructions from the Secret Service to stall 5 minutes while they completed evacuation arrangements. Under those circumstances, it would take a tremendous poker player with nerves of steel to be able to concentrate on acting like nothing was happening while also knowing that the next public statement you are about to make in 5-10 minutes and composing in your mind is about to be heard by the entire world unfiltered.

The principle and teacher with the President at the time were both lifelong Democrat and NEA supporters, yet they have both changed their minds and become very strong supporters of the President as well as Jeb when he took his stand against the NEA in 2002. This was based on their inside knowledge and observations of the actual activities at the time.

I wouldn’t call you a stooge, but I would assume you to be rather naive to think that you understand all of the backstage logistics involved in Presidential security. [/b][/quote]
Well thanks Bill, although I don't really know where I said I know all about the inner workings of the Secret Service. I searched high and low in that quote of mine you used as a jumping-off point for your impressive lecture but I didn't see it there.

You are obviously "in the loop" so why don't you explain to us ninnies why George has been taking heat for his little sit-down for 3 years and hasn't bothered to offer up the wonderful "it's SOP to sit on my ass reading donkey related books during a national emergency" explanation.

Your explanation that "they need 5 minutes to secure the building" strikes me as a little odd. You are obviously the expert, so perhaps you can tell me why it would be that the elementary school in which the President is sitting is not pre-secured. It seems to me that he would be in real trouble if their were an emergency. I mean, if something bad happened (like massive terrorist attacks against the United States and an obvious threat to the President) and the Secret Service needed five minutes prep time to get him out of the building, our friend George would be SOL (sh*t out of luck for those not familiar with government regulations).

[Cowperson]

Your explanation that "they need 5 minutes to secure the building" strikes me as a little odd.

For conversation, the timeline:

Card told GW Bush about the second plane at 9:05. At 9:15, Bush was in a holding room being briefed and considering remarks to the nation. At 9:35, the presidential motorcade left the school, half an hour after Bush had been told of the second plane while in the classroom.

At 9:54, Air Force One lifted off.

Cowperson

[BillW]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald+Oct 24 2004, 12:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lanny_MacDonald @ Oct 24 2004, 12:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-sjwalter@Oct 24 2004, 07:15 PM
First of all Lanny, how would they know exactly where the plane was that was going to hit the other Trade Center? And can you imagine if they US Air Foce would have shot it down, how people would have reacted because we all know how people sue over anything and they certainly would sue they US Government to sh*t because they can't prove that the plane was actually going to hit the other Trade Center or even the Pentagon. And there were over 200 planes in the air at the time the attacks took place, how do they know which one to shoot down? Of course people called in for help, but who's to say it wouldn't be a prank? And now you're blaming Bush for allowing the terrorists to hit the Trade Center. Pure left wing media BS. You know the government better then i do, and i'm sure there is a hell of a lot or red tape and people to go through regardless if he is president or not in order to shoot the planes down. You're now talking what might have been, instead of dealing with what happened. I would pay to see how Kerry would have reacted and knowing his history he would have probably called it a nusicance.


And Lanny, if the President made one wrong move in that Classroom, all of America would have been over him. There is nothing wrong like Dis said with what he did.

Jesus you promote some really stupid arguments. How would they know where the plane was that was going to hit the other tower?

All planes have file a flight plan before they take off. Anything that veers off of this flight path is reported immediately to NORAD is supposed to be checked on through radio communication, and should that fail, it is escorted back to its flight path (like Payne Stewart's plane eight months prior). All planes also have transponders on them that identify their exact position and all the vitals of the plane and carrier it represents. Now should these transponders go inactive or become turned off there are back up systems that the military relies upon.

There's this really cool invention called Radar. It works off the concept of bouncing sound waves off of objects and tracing them through the use of computers. Its been around for a while and works pretty good. So good infact that this system is what they use in missles to find their targets. Now this radar thingy is so good that they can track things as small as birds these days (the signature size of the F-117 BTW) so tracking an airliner the size of a 757/767 would be bo problem what so ever.

I can't believe you have the balls to even suggest that the government would have thought twice about shooting a threatening aircraft down, especially after the first tower was hit and that the other three aircraft had been identified as being hijacked. Lawsuits are the last thing the government thinks about when under attack. That you would even consider that makes me wonder about you or your values.

Now how would they tell which planes were a threat? Oh gee, I don't know? How about start with the planes off course? Then how about the planes wothout transponders? Then how about the planes that refused to acknowledge communication with them? Are you completely naive and don't think that there are protocols in dealing with situations like this? You don't think that situations like this have been completely thought out and simulated?

Who's to say that the people calling in were not making a prank? Oh my god you're an idiot! Do you know how many federal laws that would break? Do you have any clue what ramifications that would have on your life? Not only that, simpleton, the people who called in first were flight attendants. If they were fooling around they would not only lose their jobs, but also be subject to jail time. Yeah, that's probably what was running through the heads of those who took the calls. Someone is just playing a prank.

You're right on one thing, I know the government and the processes of what happens in a situation a lot better than you. So STFU and listen and learn something. There is no red tape involved once the President gives an executive order. Once the President is informed of the situation he makes the call and that is it. All red tape is taken care of through a carefully orchestrated series of pre-determined protocols identified to handle situations and eliminate the red tape.

And what Kerry would have done is irrelevant. We can speculate all we want, but Kerry was not in the seat of power and what HE would have done does not matter. I highly doubt he would have sat there with a room full of seven year olds reading a book about goats. I would hope he would have been more responsible than Bush and his handlers were. [/b][/quote]
Thank you so much for the education about how the air traffic control system works along with the FAA interaction with the military and specifically NORAD. But most of your points are WRONG.

Less than 1/3 of the aircraft in flight over the US at any given time are operating on a flight plan, thousands of aircraft are flying without transponders or even radios everyday, en route air traffic control typically has primary targets turned off most of the time, transponders are the most notorious of all avionics for failure and hundreds of them fail in flight every day, if a plane operating under an instrument flight plan veers off course and loses either radio communications or transponder the controllers first responsibility is to attempt to anticipate the new course and clear that airspace so there is not a midair collision, and RADAR as used by the FAA is not capable of identifying the altitude of a primary target. But these are just a few of the things you must have forgotten about.

My perspective on the happenings of 9/11 begin when a friend of mine walked into Jane Garvey’s (the FAA Administrator) office at 8:48 AM to prepare for her 9:00 AM staff meeting of her direct reports. He had just landed his single engine aircraft at Washington National and headed to FAA HQ and heard a news report on the way in about a small plane hitting the WTC. At that time FAA HQ was still trying to figure out what plane had hit the tower because it had been lost among primary targets on TRACON control in primary mode and ARTCC (en route) had not been able to maintain a computer lock on the primary target when it lost altitude. Airspace under IFR flight plan control in the US is divided into 21 Centers and each Center is divided into dozens of sectors as required to maintain proper controller load, and some of that space falls under the control of one of the 185 TRACON areas. By pure happenstance since the sectors are constantly changing and not published, two of the hijacked planes shut down their transponders at about the same time while in the same sector leaving one controller up to his eyeballs trying to clear traffic so neither one of the no response aircraft endangered any other aircraft – which is what his job was.

Because of the confusion taking place in ARTCC trying to reduce the controllers workload and protect all of the other aircraft in the center and sector, word did not get back to FAA HQ that the no radio (norad, not NORAD) aircraft that struck the WTC was a hijacked plane until 9:03 AM at which time Jane fortunately had her entire staff sitting in her office and they began putting all the pieces together and realized that things were happening around the country appearing normal on the individual level, but terribly wrong at the high level and NORAD was brought into the loop. So in actuality there was less than 2 minutes between the time the government fully understood the situation and the second aircraft hitting the WTC. If memory serves me, there were about 100 aircraft out of tens of thousands in the air at the time that were deemed “possible” threats because of norad or transponder conditions or other suspicious circumstances. It was believed there were other aircraft hijackings taking place, but because of the way they were being tracked in individual locations, there was no fast way to identify which flights those were out of the many possibilities. At that point FAA Flow Control (ATCSCC), which acts as kind of a big brother to the Centers, opened a hot line between HQ and NORAD to try and start clearing the normal problems from the possible threats. Prior to 9/11, there had never been a procedure for multiple hijackings and hijackings were always assumed to be a case where the hijackers wanted to live.

The above delays in response to an unanticipated scenario in multiple bureaucracies is why there is no way NORAD could have responded any faster unless they would have gone out and shot down 100 innocent aircraft. NORAD was not notified sooner because there was no hijack or emergency code transmitted prior to the aircrafts transponders being turned off, and the individual controllers involved had no way of knowing that any given aircraft was anything other than a transponder, radio, or electrical system failure and the aircraft were turning, as they should have, to the nearest place of landing and repair.

[BillW]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Oct 24 2004, 07:16 PM
Well thanks Bill, although I don't really know where I said I know all about the inner workings of the Secret Service. I searched high and low in that quote of mine you used as a jumping-off point for your impressive lecture but I didn't see it there.

You are obviously "in the loop" so why don't you explain to us ninnies why George has been taking heat for his little sit-down for 3 years and hasn't bothered to offer up the wonderful "it's SOP to sit on my ass reading donkey related books during a national emergency" explanation.

Your explanation that "they need 5 minutes to secure the building" strikes me as a little odd. You are obviously the expert, so perhaps you can tell me why it would be that the elementary school in which the President is sitting is not pre-secured. It seems to me that he would be in real trouble if their were an emergency. I mean, if something bad happened (like massive terrorist attacks against the United States and an obvious threat to the President) and the Secret Service needed five minutes prep time to get him out of the building, our friend George would be SOL (sh*t out of luck for those not familiar with government regulations).

I specifically said “to resecure either of the routes back to the airport and the perimeter of the school.” Anytime the President is going to be at a location more than 30 minutes they do not keep the motorcade route locked down for the entire time. The locals would go nuts if traffic were tied up that long, so they move the President and then resecure the route when it’s time to leave. The same holds true for the perimeter of the secured building he’s in which is the only area to maintain top security during his stay. The Secret Service will typically have multiple exit routes planned, but in a case like this they will not announce to the supporting agencies which one will be used until the last possible moment to prevent a possible ambush along a route known in advance.

The President has taken the “heat” for a number of reasons, the least of which being that the explanation has been covered in several sources, but the mainstream media has not wished to cover those. The President also understands that he can not make a direct statement to what happened because it would be interpreted by his opposition and the media of him whining about the Secret Service much like Kerry does all the time – especially when he curses them on the ski slops. The President also keeps his mouth shut out of respect for the men who have volunteered to die for him if need be and the heat they would come under if he accused them of being a delay. Considering the mass exodus of experienced Executive Detail Secret Service that occurred under President Clinton for the way he and his family treated them, President Bush learned very well how to work with them from the way his mother demanded everyone traveling with his father respect the job they have to do.

If the Secret Service needed to evacuate the President in 5 minutes, they can do it at anytime, but they first must feel the threat in the current location is worse than the threat in an unscheduled movement. Since the FAA, NORAD, and NSC had been talking for less than 2 minutes at the time they had nothing but speculation to offer him and they needed some kind of facts and proposed plans to present to him and they actually didn’t have that until about 15 minutes later.

I would prefer to have a President that acted on facts than feelings. We have a saying in fighter aircraft that you never react to a situation, you assess and then respond. As a former and very competent combat fighter pilot, President Bush understands that if he would have stopped immediately he would have been reacting, and then he would have sat around waiting for enough facts to respond to.

[calf]

I don't mean to be a jackass there Bill, but I have to ask why you're sharing the information you have?? Just seems like a lot of information to share for a first couple of posts on a Flames board. Just wonderin'

[sjwalter]

Its the Off Topic Forum Calf, and he might be knowlegable in other things as well. How does what Lanny post have anything to do with the Calgary Flames?

[calf]

Originally posted by sjwalter@Oct 24 2004, 09:43 PM
Its the Off Topic Forum Calf, and he might be knowlegable in other things as well.# How does what Lanny post have anything to do with the Calgary Flames?

I realize it's the off topic forum. Thanks for the update.

His posts came out of the blue, and I was curious why he was sharing it with us all of the sudden.

I clarified my above post for clarity.

[BillW]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Oct 24 2004, 07:26 PM
Your explanation that "they need 5 minutes to secure the building" strikes me as a little odd.

For conversation, the timeline:

Card told GW Bush about the second plane at 9:05. At 9:15, Bush was in a holding room being briefed and considering remarks to the nation. At 9:35, the presidential motorcade left the school, half an hour after Bush had been told of the second plane while in the classroom.

At 9:54, Air Force One lifted off.

Cowperson

Right on schedule after NORAD, the NSC, and the FAA had about 10-15 minutes to compare what they each knew for certain versus what was speculation, and what each was capable of doing.

Interesting tidbit. The military technically owns and is responsible for all the airspace over the US, but they grant through legal agreement the FAA authority to operate all airspace from the surface to 60,000’. It took about 1 hour for the FAA to orderly transfer most of the airspace operational control and authority back to the military through NORAD.

[sjwalter]

Ok i know what you mean now. I didn't realize what you really meant because what i thought at first was that you had an instant problem now that Lanny's being backed down with what he said.

I don't really see a problem with what is posted, because if you access the Secret Service site, i'm sure you can find good information on how the President is handled with the situation he would be in. I knew there was more to Bush staying at the school then Lanny was saying, with him showing he is a coward and all.

[BillW]

Originally posted by calf@Oct 24 2004, 08:40 PM
I don't mean to be a jackass there Bill, but I have to ask why you're sharing the information you have?? Just seems like a lot of information to share for a first couple of posts on a Flames board. Just wonderin'

Not even close to anything really sensitive – but I did read what I was posting before I hit the button to see if I needed to redact anything.

I’ve been in this business in some way or another since I started working for Senator Goldwater in 1961, and it drives me nuts to see how uninformed the public is. Daily I see people that put more faith in things happening the way they see it in a movie than the way real life actually functions. :angry:

BTW: I was babysitting 60 retired Generals and Admirals along with about 20 retired Secret Service at a rally for the President Saturday, and sensitive would have been a fly on the wall with them.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by BillW+Oct 24 2004, 09:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BillW @ Oct 24 2004, 09:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RougeUnderoos@Oct 24 2004, 07:16 PM
Well thanks Bill, although I don't really know where I said I know all about the inner workings of the Secret Service.# I searched high and low in that quote of mine you used as a jumping-off point for your impressive lecture but I didn't see it there.

You are obviously "in the loop" so why don't you explain to us ninnies why George has been taking heat for his little sit-down for 3 years and hasn't bothered to offer up the wonderful "it's SOP to sit on my ass reading donkey related books during a national emergency" explanation.#

Your explanation that "they need 5 minutes to secure the building" strikes me as a little odd.# You are obviously the expert, so perhaps you can tell me why it would be that the elementary school in which the President is sitting is not pre-secured.# It seems to me that he would be in real trouble if their were an emergency.# I mean, if something bad happened (like massive terrorist attacks against the United States and an obvious threat to the President) and the Secret Service needed five minutes prep time to get him out of the building, our friend George would be SOL (sh*t out of luck for those not familiar with government regulations).

I specifically said “to resecure either of the routes back to the airport and the perimeter of the school.” Anytime the President is going to be at a location more than 30 minutes they do not keep the motorcade route locked down for the entire time. The locals would go nuts if traffic were tied up that long, so they move the President and then resecure the route when it’s time to leave. The same holds true for the perimeter of the secured building he’s in which is the only area to maintain top security during his stay. The Secret Service will typically have multiple exit routes planned, but in a case like this they will not announce to the supporting agencies which one will be used until the last possible moment to prevent a possible ambush along a route known in advance.

The President has taken the “heat” for a number of reasons, the least of which being that the explanation has been covered in several sources, but the mainstream media has not wished to cover those. The President also understands that he can not make a direct statement to what happened because it would be interpreted by his opposition and the media of him whining about the Secret Service much like Kerry does all the time – especially when he curses them on the ski slops. The President also keeps his mouth shut out of respect for the men who have volunteered to die for him if need be and the heat they would come under if he accused them of being a delay. Considering the mass exodus of experienced Executive Detail Secret Service that occurred under President Clinton for the way he and his family treated them, President Bush learned very well how to work with them from the way his mother demanded everyone traveling with his father respect the job they have to do.

If the Secret Service needed to evacuate the President in 5 minutes, they can do it at anytime, but they first must feel the threat in the current location is worse than the threat in an unscheduled movement. Since the FAA, NORAD, and NSC had been talking for less than 2 minutes at the time they had nothing but speculation to offer him and they needed some kind of facts and proposed plans to present to him and they actually didn’t have that until about 15 minutes later.

I would prefer to have a President that acted on facts than feelings. We have a saying in fighter aircraft that you never react to a situation, you assess and then respond. As a former and very competent combat fighter pilot, President Bush understands that if he would have stopped immediately he would have been reacting, and then he would have sat around waiting for enough facts to respond to. [/b][/quote]
You specifically said a lot of things, such as they needed to re-secure " the perimeter of the school". In your latest reply you did say "the perimeter of the secured building he’s in which is the only area to maintain top security during his stay" so now I'm a little confused. Did they need to resecure the building, or was it already secured because he was still in it?

Much like you are a member of the inner circle, I am part of the President's opposition, and I promise you, if he said "I had to sit there and read that donkey book because the Secret Service told me not to move because they had to re-clear the mudroom and the soccer field" then I wouldn't attack him for it. I certainly wouldn't think he was whining about the Secret Service if he said it.

In other news, why didn't "The Ace of the Georgia Skies" ever take his great skills across the pond? Security issue? Cowardice? Drunkeness?

[FlamesAddiction]

It is kind of wierd though. To be talking about politics on a Calgary Flames messageboard, and then suddenly a new member arrives who happens to work for the Secret Service. It's a little wiggy.

Not that it matters or anything, but how did you come to find this board? There must be a million messageboards out there with these types of conversations. Don't get me wrong, you're perfectly welcome around here. Are you going to hang out for hockey talk too?

[sjwalter]

Come on you guys. Can't stand it now that someone comes in and tells it like it is? Anyone could find this site, hell i was looking for a politic site and i found my way here. I knew this was going to happen from his first post and have been expecting it. Typical liberals, suddenly scared when someone tells em like it is.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction@Oct 25 2004, 04:07 AM
It is kind of wierd though. To be talking about politics on a Calgary Flames messageboard, and then suddenly a new member arrives who happens to work for the Secret Service. It's a little wiggy.

Not that it matters or anything, but how did you come to find this board? There must be a million messageboards out there with these types of conversations. Don't get me wrong, you're perfectly welcome around here. Are you going to hang out for hockey talk too?

I was thinking the same thing. Are our little philosophical battles compelling enough that we've started attracting non-hockey fans to the OT board? It's an amazing time to be alive.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by sjwalter@Oct 25 2004, 04:10 AM
Come on you guys. Can't stand it now that someone comes in and tells it like it is? Anyone could find this site, hell i was looking for a politic site and i found my way here. I knew this way going to happen from his first post and have been expecting it. Typical liberals, suddenly scared when someone tells em like it is.

You know, I'm on the opposite side of the fence of Flames Addiction (99%) and 'Roos (90%) most of the time. Flames Addictions comment/question had ZERO to do with what you said above. That's telling it like it is. Maybe you should be a little less quick to attack with every single post.

[sjwalter]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan+Oct 24 2004, 09:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Displaced Flames fan @ Oct 24 2004, 09:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-sjwalter@Oct 25 2004, 04:10 AM
Come on you guys. Can't stand it now that someone comes in and tells it like it is? Anyone could find this site, hell i was looking for a politic site and i found my way here. I knew this way going to happen from his first post and have been expecting it. Typical liberals, suddenly scared when someone tells em like it is.

You know, I'm on the opposite side of the fence of Flames Addiction (99%) and 'Roos (90%) most of the time. Flames Addictions comment/question had ZERO to do with what you said above. That's telling it like it is. Maybe you should be a little less quick to attack with every single post. [/b][/quote]
Dis you know good and well they'll be disagreeing with Bill come high hell. Its coming close to election time and people are kinda sensitive right now, thats why i replyed to what FA said.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by sjwalter@Oct 25 2004, 04:17 AM

Dis you know good and well they'll be disagreeing with Bill come high hell. Its coming close to election time and people are kinda sensitive right now, thats why i replyed to what FA said.

FA didn't say anything that warranted your reply. In fact, I was thinking the same thing he was....and it wasn't a knock against Bill at all...it's just a reflection of how far this little community has come from what it was 7 years ago when I first started talking to the old timers here.

Your post was pure antagonism....and unprovoked antagonism.