Unions - Your opinion

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

You would be surprised how few of these slackers I come across. I know 1 in 10 is still way, way too high... if this was in a non-unionized shop the lazy SOBs would be out on the street ASAP. The problem is that if you have 1 guy who isn't pulling his weight and have 9 others trying to make up for the slacker, everyone else starts asking why they are bustin' their ass while this guy plays Bejewelled. It just takes one bad apple.

But I do remember once when I was in private industry where this 50 year old guy was subtly coming on to a 22 year old just out of university. The advances were obviously not welcomed and the girl came to me. I was in no position with this company to hire/fire people, but I was high enough up to make recommendations. First, the guy wasn't doing the work assigned to him, but rather was hanging around the girls office trying to "help" her with her work. Secondly, after repeated warnings, he was still harassing her. Lastly, the girls productivity was diminished because of this letch bothering her all the time. So I went to management and said that I had never seen a better case of a guy deserving to be fired. Management told me that they needed this guy. To maintain their contract with the client they needed to ensure that my team had at least 35 years of combined experience in this particular piece of software that we were using; without his 7 years we'd be down to 28. Management found a novel solution. They fired the girl for diminished productivity, lost her 0 years of experience and kept the guy with 7 years.

It was sh*t like that that made me run back to working for the government. Come to think of it, that's probably the ONLY thing that would get you fired in the government. But I would prefer to deal with the 1 in 10 slackers rather than seeing good people fired for no good reason.

That is sick...

I have been working for the government for about 7 years now....and I have to say that my experience has been there is a higher rate than 10% of slackers....closer to 25-30%. And it is absolutly sick. The problem is that the old timers are on cruise control....waiting for retirement.....and then when we get new staff.....some tend to pick up the habits of these slack asses.

Now I have worked many different jobs.....and there are slackers in union and non-union organizations alike....but in my profession....we cannot afford to have ANY slackers let alone 25%.

[I_H8_Crawford]

I personally am in the AGAINST unions - especially in the "white collar" areas - seriously, why do telemarketers in Telus need a union??

I hated that union - I was in sales, and hit my annual quota in 3 months - but because everyone is equal, I got nothing more for selling more, so I was able to slack off the remainder of the time I was there - I hated it.

Another thing that I hated was when I was in grade 12, the teachers union went on that ######ed "Work to Rule" campaign - I lost my senior football season because of it, and one teacher who went out of her way to ensure we still had things like school newspaper, yearbook, and debate (yes I was a geek, but it helped that some HOT girls did those things too!) and she was ostracized by her fellow co-workers because she was just helping out students.

Unions can go *bleep* themselves.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Looger

my mom worked for an outfit where she could choose to join the teamsters or not, as office staff.

the rep would always bug her aboot it when he dropped in, in a mostly good-natured way i suppose.

she eventually tired of this and told him that as soon as they returned her father's pension money that they stole she'd consider it.

he turned white and left, never to enter her office again.

They really are a bunch of bums. Take your money to make a CBA, and nowhere to be found after that when you really need them. Glad your mom told that one off, but that's 1 of 10,000. Idiots.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by fleury

They really are a bunch of bums. Take your money to make a CBA, and nowhere to be found after that when you really need them. Glad your mom told that one off, but that's 1 of 10,000. Idiots.

My sister worked for the provincial government of Saskatchewan, she was the secretary for the Speaker of the House. The union was always after her to join up, she never did. When the next election was held, the ruling party lost and thus, the person she worked for was no longer the Speaker of the House. With any such scenario, all kinds of changes take place. If my sister had joined the union, she would have been let go because she never had as much seniority as others. So joining the union would have been a very bad move on her behalf.

[maverickeastwood]

Unions like to keep secrets from their members. The IWA, now steelworkers, wouldn't allow my father to add prior years of service in the forest industry because of a vesting deadline that he was never told about. He retired after 23 years of service, but because he broke service for 6 years and never applied for past service (never knew about it) he lost 20 prior service years and therefore got screwed on the pension. Thank you, union...always looking out for the people.

[maverickeastwood]

he was looking at 43 years of pension

[dipsydoodle]

If you take the so called bastion of Capitalism the U.S. of A. The best years for the average worker, family etc. was from cira. 1955-1980. This is when the unions were the strongest. Funny how that worked. Unions have good and bad qualities, as do capitalism, and democracy, but the good out weighs the bad for the little guy, and I mean the hard working little guy. I can understand the wealthy not wanting them, but you would have to be a brain washed worker, and the washing was done, not to want one.

[Looger]

if unions take credit for all the gains made, then they take credit for breaking truckers' kneecaps who complained aboot theft through unions, they take credit for the large amount of organized crime which owes its existence to them, for the hateful incitements to ugly behaviour, etc.

unions were for a time a vehicle by which invoilved workers affected change, and like all things the power inherent in the situation corrupted the purpose and now we have bloated organizations that will destroy the ability for a company to make money and thereby remove ALL the jobs AND the pay for a given job - a great example is the projectionist union in BC - 38 bucks an hour for what used to be an involved job, now replaced by pimply kids making 9. bravo.

if the people were involved unions would be a great idea, sadly workers by and large aren't involved and thus a super-powerful elitist status has crept in by which the leadership can lie, cheat, and steal so long as they are screwing the company.

every time a salary demand is made that steps out of the bounds of a profitable enterprise, those rich fat cat owners are not the losers - when the doors close it is the workers that pay, while the owners simply put money in real estate etc. where they can actually make money.

let business be profitable or it will not exist at all - that is what has been lost since the rise in power of unions.

[Flames Fan in West Van]

Oh man, I am NOT even touching this thread with a 50 foot pole.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan in West Van

Oh man, I am NOT even touching this thread with a 50 foot pole.

Why even post then?

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by dipsydoodle

If you take the so called bastion of Capitalism the U.S. of A. The best years for the average worker, family etc. was from cira. 1955-1980. This is when the unions were the strongest. Funny how that worked. Unions have good and bad qualities, as do capitalism, and democracy, but the good out weighs the bad for the little guy, and I mean the hard working little guy. I can understand the wealthy not wanting them, but you would have to be a brain washed worker, and the washing was done, not to want one.

Or.... is it more the fact that the US finally slid into a trade deficit in 1976, and the "average" worker lost out to the increasing globalization of many industries.... autos, textiles, and manufacturing. Factors that even unions couldn't sway, and probably made worse given they would have fought workforce and wage cuts.

I believe unions are a great thing when its matters of physical safety. Kill floors, coal mines - I think it's a worthwhile endeavour. Unfortunately on monetary issues, most unions solely exist to defend their own interests, without taking into consideration that their own interest is heavily dependant on the fortunes of the company. Kill the company, kill your own jobs. It's a simple concept that eludes most unions.

[FlamesAddiction]

I have mixed feelings about unions.

I was a member of AUPE and CUPE, and both times I paid the dues but never once benefited. I was also making less in my job than people in the private sector made doing similar work.

Now that I work in the private sector, the amount I get paid depends on my utilization. I get regular reviews, and my salary increases by the guaranteed inflation rate, plus an amount based on my productivity. I can make way more money doing the same kind of work. Granted, I am MUCH busier now... but at this point in my life, I welcome it.

The thing is, I work for a large corporation that is willing to give benefits and pay fairly. Many, (many) people do not. For example, some companies pay terrible and treat their employees unfairly... in those cases, I fully support unions.

[Displaced Flames fan]

It goes both ways.

In my previous job, I had oustanding performance and low seniority. Got laid off...many, many pot smoking lazy ass 50 year olds kept their jobs thanks to union seniority.

In my current job I have outstanding performance and no danger of being laid off. However, the union protects the lazy workers and their work gets transferred on to the high performers.

It sucks either way.

If unions were abolished it would be just as bad.

[Flames Fan in West Van]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Why even post then?

I am not even touching this reply with a 50 foot pole.