9/11 Loose Change vs Pop. Mechanics

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

True...and it was poorly worded, sorry.

Fair enough, sorry for jumping on you.

For example, I can buy part of the JFK assassination theories as I have a hard time believing the lone gunman theory (more x-files references!)

Unfortunately I haven't heard much of the 911 theories I can believe in.

What JFK theories have you heard that you believe in? Why would you believe those conspiracy theories, but none to do with 9/11? I wouldn't be surprised to find at the time that many people bought the one gunman theory just like many people today buy the official 9/11 theory.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

Unfortunately I haven't heard much of the 911 theories I can believe in. My biggest "block" I guess is I have a hard time getting past the premise the US government would sacrifice an undetermined number of civilians for this event and sacrifice untold economic and political turmoil.

well, they'd be the first imperial/powerful country like that, EVER. check out the movie in my signature, this is not an alien idea.
also the entire government is not involved. much of it in this case was paralyzed, 'hey whats that on your console, hijacked airplanes eh?' 'thats amalgam virgo 2001 and you dont have clearance'. 15 exercises, the national reconnaissance office was actually cleared out for a drill involving a plane hitting their building on that day. many of the NORAD drills involved hijacker scenarios that day, albeit with many more planes.
after something like this those in the know after the fact know their place.

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

The US is much weaker after this event than before.

the state of US military readiness / deployment ability is seriously weakened, but the bulk of their air forces and strategic nuclear arsenal is pretty unaffected. having a stable of veterans 10 years down the road (especially trained in torture / imprisonment) ain't bad either, from the perspective of the ruling financial elite.

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

The only thing I do agree with is the US did want to do something in the Middle East and did invent/trump up the whole WMD angle to get into Iraq.

this is the part i never get - the bush administration can lie all the way up to and all the way since 9/11, but for a month or two they told the truth. RIIIGHT...

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

I think that has blown up in their face to some degree.

how so? securing oil resources, check.

threatening posture against iran and if need be saudi arabia, check.

one more country on the corrupt and nearly decrepit anglo-american central reserve system, check.

more tax money than ever thrown down the gullets of the power brokers, arms dealers, oil barons, no end in sight, insurgency spiraling out of control, oh well we'll have to split iraq in three pieces, permanent military presence, no end to the bloodshed, so what if our, british and israeli special forces have been caught blowing mosques up and shooting at police - no one thinks we're actually there to wreck iraq despite the released pentagon documents for P2OG, what a shame.

blown up in their faces?

this is the greatest success in the history of the military industrial complex in the US, BY FAR, and bill maher and amy goodman and all the other fake false opposition keep crying 'mistake'.

yeah, mistake.

[FurnaceFace]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Fair enough, sorry for jumping on you.


What JFK theories have you heard that you believe in? Why would you believe those conspiracy theories, but none to do with 9/11? I wouldn't be surprised to find at the time that many people bought the one gunman theory just like many people today buy the official 9/11 theory.

No worries, you didn't jump, you were polite...and not condescending.

I don't have a specific theory I believe in, I just don't buy Oswald could do what he did alone. Valid point, perhaps if I was 31 when JFK was killed like I was for 911 I'd believe Oswald did it himself. Maybe 30 years from now I'll change my view on 911...or maybe 5 years after JFK I'd have heard some compelling evidence.

Originally Posted by Looger

blown up in their faces?

They have Vietnam next gen on their hands which is bothering a lot of the citizen (although I should let Lanny expound on that).
The world looks at them with more loathing than they did before. They have galvanized the hatred of a lot of people against them.
The next terrorist event affecting the US will have far less empathy/sympathy from the world. My personal view will be they brought it on themselves.
They have what I perceive to be a large backlash against the civil liberties they are eroding.

I will agree they have been somewhat successful in grabbing oil. I'm not so sure they've been successful in pushing Iran around.

Edit: I notice this was post 911...oh the irony.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

They have Vietnam next gen on their hands which is bothering a lot of the citizen (although I should let Lanny expound on that).
The world looks at them with more loathing than they did before. They have galvanized the hatred of a lot of people against them.
The next terrorist event affecting the US will have far less empathy/sympathy from the world. My personal view will be they brought it on themselves.
They have what I perceive to be a large backlash against the civil liberties they are eroding.

I will agree they have been somewhat successful in grabbing oil. I'm not so sure they've been successful in pushing Iran around.

all of this makes life less good for the (rapidly expanding) lower and middle class in the US.

none of this is bad for the people that make the decisions.

vietnam was a total bonanza, as is iraq. this can not be understated.

governments come and go. the establishment rolls on.