4 Canadian Soldiers killed in Afghanistan

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Looger

P I P E - L I N E

Oil? Doesn't Afghanistan make more money from selling drugs?

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Azure

Sure.

Still, the idea applies to 'all' countries in the ME, epecially countries where the majority of the people are Muslim.

What idea?

In other words, the evidence doesn't exist.

Moving along...

Lol, fine you're right, no Afghan anywhere believes NATO is a Christian-oriented occupation force. They must all think just like you think.

But its okay for 'you' to believe you know what the Afghanis know? Two way street if you put it that way.

I've said 'some may feel a certain way', which you disputed. As far as I'm concerned I'm the one saying 'some appreciate the occupation, some dislike it'. Sounds reasonable to me, but apparently thats me 'reading their minds', right?

You said many view the NATO led force as a Christian occupation army. Provide evidence of that, NOT based on your assumptions either.

Until then, your point is moot.

Lol, provide evidence that Afghans are Arabs.

I never said they should change the rules. I'm saying we are held back, and frankly, I don't know what 'else' we could do in order to be more sucessful.

Yeah, held back by the Rules of Engagement that exist for a specific and good reason, as has been mentioned in this thread.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

What idea?

That the Arab/Afghanistan people view the NATO led force as a Christian occupation army.

Yeah, held back by the Rules of Engagement that exist for a specific and good reason, as has been mentioned in this thread.

Normally they exist for 'good' reason when 'both' sides obey.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Azure

Knowing that the keywords, Arab, Afghanistan, Muslim, etc, etc...never brought up the CIA World Factbook...

So... what are you saying? That the CIA World Factbook can't be trusted? Doesn't exist?? Its a pretty reputable source... not sure where you're going with this.

If you click on the link and look up Afghanistan, you'll see how you're wrong about their ethnicity, and why.

You never said a word about the extremists.

They're not Afghans?

NATO soldiers are being killed by the Taliban. An extremist group that is trying to influence their views on the rest of the Afghani people.

Wow... the guy who doesn't know who lives there is giving a quick current events lesson... interesting.

Not trying to sound vague here either, but to an extent, the Afghani people elected a government that has 'asked' NATO to stay and help rebuild their country.

And what if the government had asked them to leave? They would?

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Azure

That the Arab/Afghanistan people view the NATO led force as a Christian occupation army.

Arabs and Afghans are different. They live in different places. In this thread we're talking about Afghans.

Normally they exist for 'good' reason when 'both' sides obey.

So, we should descend to the level of our enemy? Kill their civilians? Poison towns that are known to support the insurgents?

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Azure

Oil? Doesn't Afghanistan make more money from selling drugs?

we're there for the pipeline, and no other reason. afghanistan's main industry is in fact opium production.

there's no way that the bumper crop, 900% over last year, could happen without SOME compliance of the occupying military force, ie. NATO.

once again, afghanistan isn't controlled - deals made with opium warlaords, illusion of control, IMF, world bank. this is not country building, this is a joke.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

So... what are you saying? That the CIA World Factbook can't be trusted? Doesn't exist?? Its a pretty reputable source... not sure where you're going with this.

If you click on the link and look up Afghanistan, you'll see how you're wrong about their ethnicity, and why.

Well I'll be sure to bookmark the page then.

They're not Afghans?

We're talking about the normal, everyday Afghani citizen here.

And what if the government had asked them to leave? They would?

They never asked us to leave, so why bring it up?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Looger

we're there for the pipeline, and no other reason. afghanistan's main industry is in fact opium production.

So you don't agree that we should have taken out the Taliban?

there's no way that the bumper crop, 900% over last year, could happen without SOME compliance of the occupying military force, ie. NATO.

900%?

I'm agree though, someone must be turning a blind eye to the opium production.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Azure

So you don't agree that we should have taken out the Taliban?

i wouldn't have set them up in the first place.

not sure why you're putting words in my mouth here. what are you saying?

Originally Posted by Azure

900%?

I'm agree though, someone must be turning a blind eye to the opium production.

yeah, a 'blind eye'. sure thing. gotcha. okaley-dokaley. oops.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Azure

We're talking about the normal, everyday Afghani citizen here.

Ah, I see. I'm talking about all Afghanis... not just the ones who like the occupation.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Looger

i wouldn't have set them up in the first place.

not sure why you're putting words in my mouth here. what are you saying?

WTF?

Who cares who set them up. We can't change history, can we?

I guess if you believe that the US government carried out the 9/11 attacks, then the Taliban are innocent.

Alrighty then.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Looger

not sure why you're putting words in my mouth here. what are you saying?

You'd better get used to it.

[Azure]

nm...

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Azure

WTF?

Who cares who set them up. We can't change history, can we?

I guess if you believe that the US government carried out the 9/11 attacks, then the Taliban are innocent.

Alrighty then.

without CONSTANT foreign aid from the united states, the taliban would have imploded years before. they were HATED by all their neighbours, and reviled throughout the middle east, even among their former supporters among wahabist saudi bankers. they had reached the height of their power years before, but were not too popular with the warlords running the opium trade. their number was coming up, like all snakepit despots set up by foreign powers.

the US was the central bankroll for the taliban in 2000 and 2001.

unbelievable.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Looger

without CONSTANT foreign aid from the united states, the taliban would have imploded years before. they were HATED by all their neighbours, and reviled throughout the middle east, even among their former supporters among wahabist saudi bankers. they had reached the height of their power years before, but were not too popular with the warlords running the opium trade. their number was coming up, like all snakepit despots set up by foreign powers.

the US was the central bankroll for the taliban in 2000 and 2001.

unbelievable.

But Looger, history doesn't matter, remember? You can't cry over spilled milk!

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

But Looger, history doesn't matter, remember? You can't cry over spilled milk!

oh yeah.

oops.

we're not at war with eurasia, we're at war with eastasia!

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

But Looger, history doesn't matter, remember? You can't cry over spilled milk!

Because thats exactly what I said.



Looger...we can't do anything about that can we? Pre-9/11(if you believe it was a terrorist atttack)...times have changed.

My point does not exist around ignoring history, rather realizing that its stupid and meaningless to constantly use events that happened 20 years ago as a debate point of why we should be in Afghanistan.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Azure

Looger...we can't do anything about that can we? Pre-9/11(if you believe it was a terrorist atttack)...times have changed.

My point does not exist around ignoring history, rather realizing that its stupid and meaningless to constantly use events that happened 20 years ago as a debate point of why we should be in Afghanistan.

Examining the history of a conflict is vitally important to understanding where you are today. If you don't know Afghani history, then you won't know how to fight there, who your enemies are, the inter-relations between tribes, simmering feelings about past US support/lack of support, etc., etc. If one doesn't learn from history they're doomed to repeat it... just like US in Iraq/Vietnam, in my opinion.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Examining the history of a conflict is vitally important to understanding where you are today. If you don't know Afghani history, then you won't know how to fight there, who your enemies are, the inter-relations between tribes, simmering feelings about past US support/lack of support, etc., etc. If one doesn't learn from history they're doomed to repeat it... just like US in Iraq/Vietnam, in my opinion.

I agree 100%.

I think the US has made numerous mistakes in the past, and also made a huge blunder in invading Iraq. But I can't change the history, and neither can anyone else.

So to argue about US involvement in the ME, or for that manner Canadian involvement, I find it a bit strange that one would bring up incidents that happened 20 years ago, such as the US supporting the Taliban(I don't even know if that is true) and using such a comment to justify your stance against a NATO military presense.

[metallicat]

Getting back to this thing about ROEs, like Agamemnon said, I am simply frustrated by the whole thing. I am not wanting Canadians to betray international law, and stoop to the level of the enemy, I was just airing my frustrations with the whole situation. It sucks. I wasn't trying to create controversy here or anything.