Rap=Crap...yes or no?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Calgary Flames

It's just music!

Really?

Do they even use instruments? Or just computers?

Used to be that real music was made with guitars, drums and other instruments. Now we have the "me" generation making music with computers and selling it cause it has a good "beat."

[RedMan12]

Originally Posted by Azure

Really?

Do they even use instruments? Or just computers?

Used to be that real music was made with guitars, drums and other instruments. Now we have the "me" generation making music with computers and selling it cause it has a good "beat."

Ever heard of The Roots? Quest Love is an awesome drum player. They are a hip hop band that uses all real instruments.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

How can people just make this stuff up off the top of their head?

i didn't watch your video. this comment from fans of rap about freestylers make me laugh my ass off. they are talking. TALKING. i am typing (would be talking if you had brought this up in person though). how can i make this **** up off the top of my head? simple - everyone does this non-stop all their lives.

want to hear some talent and people "making stuff up off the top of their head" go listen to some improvisational jazz.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

i didn't watch your video.

Well you probably should.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by mightyfire89

The only good rap that ever came out was NWA. The rest of it sucks ass.

I like Jurassic 5 too and Run DMC has some great ones (Jam Master Jay)

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Well you probably should.

alright. my bad. went back and watched it and i should have watched it first, missed the joke you were making.

[Calgary Flames]

Since when is music defined by the use of actual instruments?? What a stupid arguement.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Calgary Flames

Since when is music defined by the use of actual instruments?? What a stupid arguement.

according to my dictionary....
mu·sic
n.
Vocal or instrumental sounds possessing a degree of melody, harmony, or rhythm.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

according to my dictionary....
mu·sic
n.
Vocal or instrumental sounds possessing a degree of melody, harmony, or rhythm.

There are definitely vocal sounds and there is rhythm so I according to your dictionary rap = music.

[Pagal4321]

Oh wow this thread really is something else.

Freestyle rapping is just talking? So making rhymes that actually make sense is now considered talking? If that's so, I don't talk very often. And also, last time I checked Hip Hop has vocal sound, therefore can be considered music.
Like mentioned a few posts ago, go listen to the Roots...Quest love is an outstanding drummer and the Roots uses live instruments to go along with their rap.

And Cheese, yes, modern day "hip-hop" is being sold strictly on lyrics, but you can't say any other type of genre isn't being sold on lyrics either. Fine, the crap by Lil Jon et al is ****, but paying attention to mainstream radio "hip-hop" isn't the way to go if you want to judge this music genre.
You want a guy, who I think should be judged on his lyrics, that would be Common. You go listen to his latest album "Be" and you will hear a true hip-hop artist, doing what he does best. BUt taking the most BLATENT examples of ****ty lyrics and then judging a musical genre isn't really a fair argument at all.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

There are definitely vocal sounds and there is rhythm so I according to your dictionary rap = music.

yes. yes it is. i wasn't disputing that. i was just calling out a stupid comment about music not needing instruments. it does (and yes, the voice is an instrument).

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

We could scare up a lot of pretty rough stuff from country music and rawk music that was sold to you and I when we were kids. I'm sure someone back in the day got pretty riled up when Johnny Cash sang about shooting his wife and snorting cocaine.

The lyrics you posted lack a bit of subtlety, but it's all been covered before.

The difference is most country and rock use those kind of lyrics in a negative way, whereas rap seems to use them in a celebratory way.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Pagal4321

And Cheese, yes, modern day "hip-hop" is being sold strictly on lyrics, but you can't say any other type of genre isn't being sold on lyrics either. Fine, the crap by Lil Jon et al is ****, but paying attention to mainstream radio "hip-hop" isn't the way to go if you want to judge this music genre.
You want a guy, who I think should be judged on his lyrics, that would be Common. You go listen to his latest album "Be" and you will hear a true hip-hop artist, doing what he does best. BUt taking the most BLATENT examples of ****ty lyrics and then judging a musical genre isn't really a fair argument at all.

Well Pagal if you read my earlier post you will know that I do indeed like some Hip Hop music. I think that HH has moved to the R&B side of the style sheet and away from Rap.
This discussion is on Rap...some HH artists are closer to the rap/mixing side of things, but overall I think the newer artists are closer to R&B.
As far as Rap goes...and HHF posted that lovely set of Rock lyrics...overall when it comes to the lyrics of these genres Rap tends to use humiliating, angry, hurtful, distasteful lyrics as its base...whereas Rock tends to be more political and the lyrics arent as blatant. Mix that with teaching kids how to speak Ebonics and an entire generation of kids will grow up thinking that this is the way to say I am looking for a job...

Dear Sir,
I be very interested in applying fo' da position ya advertised. I th'o't muh ma ****in English will be acceptable an' I will bring leadership an' quality ta da workplace. an don't make me pull mah gat!

[Josh]

Originally Posted by Eddie Bronze

You remind me of someone and his name is Josh too, I guess it comes with the name?

It's people like you that are the cancer in our society that allows the evil to continue to grow within mankind.

Rap can't be intelligent? Maybe your ears are just dumb.

I'm the Cancer?

The cancer in our society is the mainstream acceptance of the deplorable behavior that rap "artists" exibit.

Yes I am not an accepting person, I have no respect for those that live up to negative stereotypes, I wouldn't allow them to associate with me. However, I have the upmost respect for those that defy negative stereotypes and actually make a positive contribution to society.

There is no rational argument that you can give saying that "rap" and hip-hop culture has a positive influence on society.

Call me a racist, a bigot or whatever you like.

I'm not the problem.........

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by SoZe

1) Almost everybody else here is biased and hates rap.

They're biased because they hate rap? Are you crazy? It's not like everyone woke up one day and said "Boy I sure hate that rap music." Rap music really turns people off with it's celebration of violence and indecency.

2) Pop has gone hip hop. Hip hop has not gone pop. Mindless hip hop acts have been selling millions of records. Unfortunately, contrary to your beliefs, hip hop has not been on a decline. Sure, garbage acts may have been surfacing, but true lyricists are stronger than ever and subject matter is still present. Plenty of rappers are offering great music, but again, you don't hear it because other music is popular, so you assume it must be on a decline.

Can you honestly expect me to go digging around deeper into a genre that, taken at face value, is junk? A couple of my friends are really into the scene and so I get to here some decent stuff every now and then. The point I was making is that most of the stuff that is being marketed to the masses is filth.

HAHAHAHA, I'm being twice as stereotypical!? I said many rappers are revolutionaries, and you counter with "How many of them are criminals?". Then I say, can you really blame a guy who's got absolutely nothing for not having any motivation to play fair after living his entire life poor in a country that was built on his ancestors' slave labour.

Yes I can. If you are a decent human being you don't commit such acts. Would you give the same exception to white kids who are beaten by their parents? I wouldn't. Every individual is ultimately responsible for their own actions.

"How many of them are criminals?" You make me sick, what was done to the African-American and Caribbean races is criminal. Why don't you think about that for a little while.

And your constant accusations of racism on this board make me sick. Just because someone doesn't like a genre of music that you do, doesn't make them racist. So I guess if a black person doesn't like rock music and there is a wide variety of drug addicts and frauds in that type of genre, they're racist too?

You say that I'm suggesting black people can't rise above their current situation? I'm asking you why they're in their current situations. In case you can't come up with the answer, I'll give you a big hint, the white man's greed. And then I'm saying that getting caught up in a short-cut happens, and I can understand wanting to take a short-cut after going to ****ty schools, wearing dirty clothes, and eating next to nothing all your life. Yeah I said rap was the voice of the people, and you asking me what kind of voice condones killing, stealing, trafficking is just another example of your ignorance. You think that's all the music is about? Are you sure you used to listen to rap?

Really? Gee I never knew that. Thanks Mr. West! Rap is not the only voice of the people. What about the black people that choose the blues or reggae as their voice? You're posts are telling me that rap represents the only voice for black people and I'm telling you that's not true. Rap can be a voice for black people but that voice has since been harvested and exploited by rich white guys in suits, who sell the voice back to black people. What's being sold back and accepted by large parts of society is not artistic rap. You can argue that artistic rap is being accepted widely but it's not getting the marketing that the watered down, mindless garbage is.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

yes. yes it is. i wasn't disputing that. i was just calling out a stupid comment about music not needing instruments. it does (and yes, the voice is an instrument).

The Beastie Boys have used everything from guitars to a scratch board (actual name escapes me right now). Many other groups do also.

[Igottago]

Here's my thing with rap. It can be an extremely powerful form of music, and can say a lot. Its kinda like punk rock. Its the music for the common person, you don't have to be mozart to perform it. At its best, rap is extreme, emotional, and thrilling. It can provide great social commentary, it may actually be the best form of music for that.

What turns me off however, with most rap that I hear these days, is a lack of authenticity. I don't want to hear about some guy bragging about his cars and ho's. Its not real. Its celebrity bull****. I want music I can relate to on a deeper level. There's just so much macho bravado in most mainstream rap, its hard to take. There's no vulnerability. There's no real emotion.

And I would say, in this sense, that it is bad for black culture/youth. All its doing is glorifying consumerism, and unrealistic goals. How many kids from the ghetto are actually gonna be able to drive pimped out Hummers to the club, drink bottles of Chrystal (spelling?) and pick up a bunch of brainless skanks? Its pure bull****.

That being said, there certainly is more intelligent/relatable rap out there, but no one's hearing it. All my friends who listen to rap listen to the mainstream stuff. Most people do. And yes, the same problems exist with rock music right now. So all in all, its not the form of music that is under question, its just the direction that the industry has taken.

[Calgary Flames]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

according to my dictionary....
mu·sic
n.
Vocal or instrumental sounds possessing a degree of melody, harmony, or rhythm.

Beats in Rap music are instrumental sounds... There's rythym, harmony and a melody to it.

Music is not defined by the sounds being made live by those instruments.

[moon]

I won't go so far as saying it is crap because far be it from me to say what is crap, but I would say that I don't like to listen to it or hip hop and even with all the supposedly "good" rap/hip hop that has been posted still have yet to hear anything worth listening to from either genre.

[habernac]

there's **** in every genre of music. The stereotypical pimp/ho/bling etc rap video is a turn off to a lot of people. I'm not a big fan of the music myself, but there's no way I'm going to force my musical tastes on anyone. Like whatever you want.