CRAP!!!(*#&$ I just got a speeding ticket

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by 4X4

huh.. Looks like it's me against the world.

Ken 42... How about people learning how to merge? Can you merge? Does it **** you off that others can't? Is your solution to "dumb it down" for the BBS's of the world?

First off, let me tell you that my intention here is a spiritted discussion; not to pit you against the world.

Now, here's the problem with merging. I'm the mergee; I'm on the freeway letting somebody in. (I've got EB Glenmore @ Blackfoot in mind.) How do I go about doing that? I either change lanes to make a gap, or I slow down. (Slow down is what I see most often.) Now I go from 80 to 75 and now the merger can get in. Unfortunately to avoid a chain reaction rear ending, everybody else behind me slows down. 2 cars behind me somebody else lets somebody in, slowing from 75 to 70. This causes a new chain reaction bottleneck on what is supposed to be a freeway.

There is another option; one that is used in Seattle, LA, and San Fran. It's a traffic meter on the merge ramp. It's a traffic light that only has 2 lights, red and green. You pull up to the stop line, and when it turns green you pin it. This puts a gap between the merging cars. The problem with using this type of system (driver education aside) is two fold. First, we often have winter weather in Calgary, and rapid acceleration doesn't mix with winter driving. Second is space; to allow all cars to get from 0 to 80 under moderate acceleration requires some room; if the guy driving the Chevette can't make it up to 80 in time the whole system fails.

I do agree with your point that as drivers we should be tested every 5 years, and the test should be conducted in one of Canada's official languages. But that won't solve all of the road problems, and it certainly won't change the fact that we have a road system in Calgary that is impacted by weather as many times as 10 months of the year.

[transplant99]

There really are bad drivers EVERYWHERE....every freakin city in the world has people that complain about "all the other drivers" though.

Its hilarious to me actually.

I have driven in LA, Florida, Vancouver, Toronto, Calgary Etc etc etc...and in the relatively small city where i am now. I can without hesitation say, every place has equally bad drivers behind the wheels of cars on the roads i have coursed over.

[Bobblehead]

Every city has different customs, and those make the driving experience different no matter which cities you are going between. When I first came to Calgary, I was shocked when I let someone merge in front of me, and I got a wave!

But to agree with 4x4, there should be a bit more consistencey in interchanges. Until you know them, when getting on to the deerfoot you can't be sure if you are going to the right for a cloverleaf, or if it is a left turn accross traffic. And on Deerfoot, lanes seem to disappear for no reason. Northbound Crochild to Westbound Bow trial? nope. Like Ken mentioned; northbound deerfoot to westbound Glenmore is bizarre.

From Rhettzky's post, I know probably most of these were designed by different consultants, but there really does need to be a bit more consistency.

The new interchange being built at McKnight & 36th St is not planned to have any lights; and the layout is interesting, to say the least.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

The new interchange being built at McKnight & 36th St is not planned to have any lights; and the layout is interesting, to say the least.

I just had a look; and it looks freaking cool: http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/...hange_plan.pdf

You will note the "no lights" is being acomplished with a flyover; which as I said before requires a lot of space.

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I just had a look; and it looks freaking cool: http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/...hange_plan.pdf

You will note the "no lights" is being acomplished with a flyover; which as I said before requires a lot of space.

That looks somewhat similar to the Crowchild / Glenmore flyover. Appears to be a good (but expensive?) solution when one leg of the cloverleaf is expected to handle a lot of traffic. Could get icy quick in the wintertime though.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by ken0042

First off, let me tell you that my intention here is a spiritted discussion; not to pit you against the world.

Now, here's the problem with merging. I'm the mergee; I'm on the freeway letting somebody in. (I've got EB Glenmore @ Blackfoot in mind.) How do I go about doing that? I either change lanes to make a gap, or I slow down. (Slow down is what I see most often.) Now I go from 80 to 75 and now the merger can get in. Unfortunately to avoid a chain reaction rear ending, everybody else behind me slows down. 2 cars behind me somebody else lets somebody in, slowing from 75 to 70. This causes a new chain reaction bottleneck on what is supposed to be a freeway.

There is another option; one that is used in Seattle, LA, and San Fran. It's a traffic meter on the merge ramp. It's a traffic light that only has 2 lights, red and green. You pull up to the stop line, and when it turns green you pin it. This puts a gap between the merging cars. The problem with using this type of system (driver education aside) is two fold. First, we often have winter weather in Calgary, and rapid acceleration doesn't mix with winter driving. Second is space; to allow all cars to get from 0 to 80 under moderate acceleration requires some room; if the guy driving the Chevette can't make it up to 80 in time the whole system fails.

I do agree with your point that as drivers we should be tested every 5 years, and the test should be conducted in one of Canada's official languages. But that won't solve all of the road problems, and it certainly won't change the fact that we have a road system in Calgary that is impacted by weather as many times as 10 months of the year.

With your merging situation, I would not slow down to 75km to let them in. Maybe that is why people to continue to merge imporperly. If there is room, by all means I will go in the next lane. But if not, try not letting them in, unless they speed up a little past 80km, perhaps this will force them to eventually realize they will have to learn to go with the traffic, not impede it, even if it means hitting the 85km mark to get there and merge.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

That looks somewhat similar to the Crowchild / Glenmore flyover. Appears to be a good (but expensive?) solution when one leg of the cloverleaf is expected to handle a lot of traffic. Could get icy quick in the wintertime though.

I like this design for sure. Finally some innovation and progressivness with respect to a newer intersection. Unlike the stupid designs they have done in the last few years, example - Macleod/Anderson and Shagannapi/Crowchild.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

With your merging situation, I would not slow down to 75km to let them in. Maybe that is why people to continue to merge imporperly. If there is room, by all means I will go in the next lane. But if not, try not letting them in, unless they speed up a little past 80km, perhaps this will force them to eventually realize they will have to learn to go with the traffic, not impede it, even if it means hitting the 85km mark to get there and merge.

So, in rush hour traffic without me slowing down, how is the merger increasing his velocity going to produce a gap between me and the guy if front of me?

By the same reasoning, by me changing lanes, now somebody in one of the "faster" lanes now has to slow down to create a gap for me to move into.

I'm not saying that proper merging is impossible, but add people trying to merge two directions at the same time and it can create a traffic nightmare. And it appears the city has studied it, as well as the city of Toronto too: The City of Calgary has removed loops in two cloverleaf interchanges at Blackfoot Trail/Glenmore Trail and at Sarcee Trail/Trans Canada Highway. Similarly, The City of Toronto has removed all of its cloverleaf interchanges.


That's a nice simple link explaining what many of us have been trying to say: clover leafs do not work in high volume inner city traffic.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by ken0042

So, in rush hour traffic without me slowing down, how is the merger increasing his velocity going to produce a gap between me and the guy if front of me?

By the same reasoning, by me changing lanes, now somebody in one of the "faster" lanes now has to slow down to create a gap for me to move into.

I'm not saying that proper merging is impossible, but add people trying to merge two directions at the same time and it can create a traffic nightmare. And it appears the city has studied it, as well as the city of Toronto too: The City of Calgary has removed loops in two cloverleaf interchanges at Blackfoot Trail/Glenmore Trail and at Sarcee Trail/Trans Canada Highway. Similarly, The City of Toronto has removed all of its cloverleaf interchanges.


That's a nice simple link explaining what many of us have been trying to say: clover leafs do not work in high volume inner city traffic.

I hear what your saying. I guess my scenario was based more on regular driving hours not rush hour time. In rush hour there is not much one can do in that situation you are talking about.

I like your mentality though about not going in the left lane and ultimately slowing down those in that lane, thus you would rather not move lanes. If all people thought like you, at least some traffic sense would be amongst everyone. (I am usually in the fast lane, so I like your philosophy). I applaud you...

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by ken0042

So, in rush hour traffic without me slowing down, how is the merger increasing his velocity going to produce a gap between me and the guy if front of me?

By the same reasoning, by me changing lanes, now somebody in one of the "faster" lanes now has to slow down to create a gap for me to move into.

I'm not saying that proper merging is impossible, but add people trying to merge two directions at the same time and it can create a traffic nightmare. And it appears the city has studied it, as well as the city of Toronto too: The City of Calgary has removed loops in two cloverleaf interchanges at Blackfoot Trail/Glenmore Trail and at Sarcee Trail/Trans Canada Highway. Similarly, The City of Toronto has removed all of its cloverleaf interchanges.


That's a nice simple link explaining what many of us have been trying to say: clover leafs do not work in high volume inner city traffic.

Clover leafs may not work in high volume inner city traffic. I don't believe it. If drivers are properly trained and pay attention while driving, I think they work. The sad fact is clover leafs don't work in Calgary in low volume city traffic. I call, present road engineering, idiot proofing the roads.

Calgary drivers mostly have bad attitudes. I'm sure other cities have their problems too, but Calgary drivers have an international reputation. Besides the attitude, Calgary also has drivers from all over, each with their own ideas of how it should be done, resulting in a bigger mess. Thanks for listening.

[Shazam]

Shagannapi/Crowchild

The city got fleeced on that one. What shocked me was how long it took to build. And... just... why... is... it... so... big?

Clover leafs may not work in high volume inner city traffic. I don't believe it.

Well, they're dying a slow death. Los Angeles/Orange County never had cloverleafs on their highways (same reasons as here - too much land, drivers don't know what the hell they're doing), as they came to those same conclusions from day one.

Calgary drivers mostly have bad attitudes. I'm sure other cities have their problems too, but Calgary drivers have an international reputation. Besides the attitude, Calgary also has drivers from all over, each with their own ideas of how it should be done, resulting in a bigger mess. Thanks for listening.

Calgary drivers are average. Most idiocy stems from lack of training.

But they are far from the worst. New York drivers easily take the cake as the craziest drivers in NA. They don't even follow lanes, they do right and left turns from any lane, they actually BUMP each other if you **** them off, it's total insanity.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

With your merging situation, I would not slow down to 75km to let them in. Maybe that is why people to continue to merge imporperly. If there is room, by all means I will go in the next lane. But if not, try not letting them in, unless they speed up a little past 80km, perhaps this will force them to eventually realize they will have to learn to go with the traffic, not impede it, even if it means hitting the 85km mark to get there and merge.

In Calgary, when merging, both cars have equal right-of-way. So you have to yield to that driver if he needs you to do that in order for him to merge.

You did get taught that in driving school, right?

It does amuse me that you think you're somehow justified just because you're doing the speed limit and that driver isn't, and that you expect that person to break the law in order for you to be "unimpeded", even though I seriously doubt going 75 for a few seconds will somehow result in you being late for whatever thing you're doing.

And, if you're driving in the slow (right) lane where almost all merge lanes in this city go into, what did you expect? Go into one of the other lanes if you don't want to deal with mergers. That's what I do.

[Flame On]

I hope you were the guy in the green car up my *ss the other day, weaving in and out of lanes then punching it and generally being an ass. Then lights explode on the car next to me and low and behold a copper pulls you over.
Ahhh satisfying.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Shazam

The city got fleeced on that one. What shocked me was how long it took to build. And... just... why... is... it... so... big?

Well, they're dying a slow death. Los Angeles/Orange County never had cloverleafs on their highways (same reasons as here - too much land, drivers don't know what the hell they're doing), as they came to those same conclusions from day one.

Calgary drivers are average. Most idiocy stems from lack of training.

But they are far from the worst. New York drivers easily take the cake as the craziest drivers in NA. They don't even follow lanes, they do right and left turns from any lane, they actually BUMP each other if you **** them off, it's total insanity.

I've driven in London and in Paris too, not exactly placid driving experiences. Still better I find. Perhaps its the penchent for people here to disregard red lights or the 2 second rule.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by 4X4

You're kidding me. Holy Crap. I just read your post again BBS. Are you actually comparing Glenmore to 64th?

You really are a notch below.

Where the hell did I do that.
You went off about how it's stupid that every interchange is diferent on deerfoot so I used a literary techniqute used as sarcasm to point out that 64th and Glenmore are two entirely different streets and therefore warrant different designs of interchanges. But I suppose the best way to win an arguement is to make up what the other side said.

Seriously dude, where did I say I blindly follow the rules, I speed as much as the next guy, but unlike you I understand that design conditions dictate what posted speed limits are. They aren't arbitray and I me, you or anyone else decides they want to go faster they are welcome to, but for the average driver (I never have and never will argue that there are a lot of bad drivers in Calgary) that is what is safe.

See dude, one thing you don't understand is that roads have to be made safe for the worst drivers, not the best, if they made them for the best drivers all roads would have 200 kph speed limits.

Seriously dude all you've done in this tread is say "I know how to drive and you don't" like 50 times. Care to come up with something a little more insightful.
You said the speed limits are too low, so i've explained why speed limits are the way they are. So you said I don't know how to drive.

You said it's stupid that every interchange isn't the same and isn't a cloverleaf. So, I gave you an perfect example of why not all interchanges are cloverleafes (Shag and Crowchild), and expalined that vastly different roads (64th and Glemore) have different requirements for an interchage. So you said "Holy crap I can't beleive you think 64th and Glenmore are exactly the same".

Well done sir, I can see I've been truly out thought by a master of debate, why talk about a subjet logically when you can simply say the same thing over and over again no matter how irrelevant.

[4X4]

Dude. Seriously dude. Duuuude...

Re read the thread. I was happily bitching about the ######edness of certain speed limits in certain areas, and pointed out that some of them are basically fishing holes for Calgary's Finest. You got offended and picked a fight.

FFWD

I said that the city planners in calgary suck. Case in point: no two interchanges on Deerfoot are the same. I also added that any arguements about grade are null. I suppose I should have also added that in particular, the north side of deerfoot is has pretty consistant grades from memorial to 64th. Memorial is different because it has the train line, plus it has barlow and is a major thoroughfare for DT traffic.

Very slowly now, WHY AREN'T 16th, 32nd and McKnight SOMEWHAT SIMILAR?

Why do cars entering Derfoot from Southland (southbound) have to cross two lanes of fast moving traffic to proceed south?

Why do people that want to go WB on Glenmore from Deerfoot north have to take a ****ing scenic route past the auto mall and the driving range?


DUUUUUUUUDE! DUUUUUUDE! Can you answer that? Do you still want to discuss this? We are scrapping because I think that the people who design the roads and make the speed limits are dumber than a bag of hammers. Your retort was "ohhh, too bad we don't have 4x4 to fix the road problems in Calgary.". WTF? Maybe I am the stupid one. Because for the life of me, I cannot figure out why the mighty Deerfoot is so curvy and every interchange is different. Please enlighten me, BBS. Obviously I'm dealing with someone SMRTER than me.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by 4X4

WHY AREN'T 16th, 32nd and McKnight SOMEWHAT SIMILAR?

Why do cars entering Derfoot from Southland (southbound) have to cross two lanes of fast moving traffic to proceed south?

Why do people that want to go WB on Glenmore from Deerfoot north have to take a ****ing scenic route past the auto mall and the driving range?

Your first question makes sense, and is a good example of simple poor planning on Deerfoot. However keep in mind you had originally asked why they weren't all the same, and you got an answer to that.

On your second point, I asked that question and got a response from the department of highways; as Deerfoot is a provincial road not a city one. They indicated the increased weave lanes were put in place as a temporary measure to ease some of the burden, and a permanent solution is in the works. Apparently it has to do with the city and province taking over the Lafarge land.

The third question is one that just baffles me though. Not only is it a detour of at least 2 km, during times of flooding it is unavailable to be used.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by ken0042

On your second point, I asked that question and got a response from the department of highways; as Deerfoot is a provincial road not a city one. They indicated the increased weave lanes were put in place as a temporary measure to ease some of the burden, and a permanent solution is in the works. Apparently it has to do with the city and province taking over the Lafarge land.

We did some work on the Deerfoot meadows project a few years back and obtained some survey information for that particular weave. It doesn't even come close to meeting minimum standards. I'd be interested to know how they got away with that even on a temporary basis (I use the term temporary loosely because it's been like that for years)

[Tron_fdc]

Merge lanes......holy moly I hate merge lanes. I used to drive Hiway 8 when I lived up at Cougar Ridge, and good god was it ever a cluster##### getting on to it from Westbound Glenmore. 2 turning lanes merging into one lane, and a continual stream of a-holes that would speed up so the vehicles driving along in the lane that was about to end wouldn't be able to merge. In a merge lane, both motorists have equal rights.....except apparently if you drive in Calgary.

I stopped caring after a few months, and realized that with a quick head fake (quick swerve) people would naturally hit the brakes and let me in. There would always be the one stubborn jagoff who wouldn't budge though, in which case I would just go anyway. One knob got all offended with me, and after the merge lane ended, proceeded to swerve into oncoming traffic, just about get into a head-on, and pass me. He fingered me for about 4km while we travelled down the road, but when we stopped at a set of lights he was strangely quiet. Maybe he heard me yelling at him?

The funniest part was that the guy was driving a car with his business name and phone number on the side of it.....which I called......and asked what sounded like his son why daddy drives like an arsehole

[Rakiet]

what the hell is this thread about now? I go away and a thread about a simple speeding ticket seems to be in the running for the longest thread on this entire forum