Worst team in the league - Are we "OK" with it?

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

They barely squeezed out the 96 points after starting the season strong.

Aiming for 97 when you start 1-4 (probably -5 after tonight) will be a far tougher task.

A couple more losses and it becomes unrealistic.

Yeah the next couple weeks should make re evaluating expectations much clearer.

Some posts in other threads have had people saying Huberdeau coming back will make a difference but I disagree. He’s passable as a hockey player but a 50-60 point forward isn’t going to change the fortunes of this season.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Isn't this exactly what they've been doing for the last 24 months?

Not spending cap to add.
Not adding at the deadline when close to a playoff spot.
Drafting in the first round twice in three straight years.

This isn't a new concept ... it's the existing concept.

Yes, so I'm saying don't change course on account of how this season is going.

What's "new" is being dead last.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm pretty sure the Flames have someone (everyone?) in house that can model up playoff chances after a 1-4 or 2-8 start.

Where fans get snagged is they lose their sh*t over quotes from management that don't represent a full surrender or collapse to the season.

You're extracting a lot from my posts that isn't actually being said or implied. Creating a straw man here.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Worst team in the league is fine, it would be nice to have some confirmation from the team that it’s rebuild mode now. Who really knows what the expectation from ownership is though, we heard in the summer it was to exceed last years results. Well, that’s definitely possible, but 1-4 doesnt inspire much confidence.

It doesn't matter what they do, they will not use the word "rebuild". Even if they trade away Ras, Coleman and Kadri for picks younger roster players and prospects. They won't say it. I guarantee that some fans will still be upset that they aren't rebuilding because they won't say that word... even if they get a 1st OA and another couple top 5 picks in the next few years.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

You're extracting a lot from my posts that isn't actually being said or implied. Creating a straw man here.

I think Straw Man gets over used.

You're saying you hope Conroy doesn't move to fix it and let the suck happen aren't you?

I'm saying I'm sure they are able to run the chances of making the playoffs as well as anyone here.

Don't see a straw man there at all.

[Ba'alzamon]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

And even if we don't finish last because the lottery hates us, but are close to it, there are some good options including at center.

Ryan Roobroeck has loads of skill and has put up exceptional numbers at every level and is a 6'4" center.

I hate to break it to you, but Roobroek is a LW.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Buff

It doesn't matter what they do, they will not use the word "rebuild". Even if they trade away Ras, Coleman and Kadri for picks younger roster players and prospects. They won't say it. I guarantee that some fans will still be upset that they aren't rebuilding because they won't say that word... even if they get a 1st OA and another couple top 5 picks in the next few years.

Agreed I doubt they’ll ever admit it, which seems pointless and petty. All it does in my view is make the management and ownership look incompetent. Either they are in a rebuild and this is an expected result, or it isn’t a rebuild and they are bad at their jobs. Multiple decades of playoff disappointments lead me to believe ownership is incompetent at building a winning club. Yet some continue to wave their pom poms (not you, just a general statement).

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Isn't this exactly what they've been doing for the last 24 months?

Not spending cap to add.
Not adding at the deadline when close to a playoff spot.
Drafting in the first round twice in three straight years.

This isn't a new concept ... it's the existing concept.

I wonder though if not spending to the cap to add is b design, or it it is because there was no one worth adding who wanted to sign. Like if Marner decided he wanted to play in Calgary, I have little doubt that they would have used that cap space on him. They aren’t going to spend just for the sake of it, but I think they would if the opportunity came up. Like I don’t think they are turning away expensive star players for rebuild reasons.

[dino7c]

They wont be last...most teams would have struggled with this schedule. Even now they are tied for last with a handful of teams and 2 points back of half the league

Sorry guy

[FlamesNightmare]

I'm fine with being last. I accepted the fact we are re-building our team, and collecting nice young players. If it means we get dib's on draft picks, we could sure use a super-star centerman.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I am 100% not fine with it, but if it ends up this way this year, then I will accept it and be happy with the high pick. This is what the organization needs more in the long run than finishing somewhere in the middle of the pack again.


The way the NHL draft works, if you are not contending for the cup, then you best be getting a high pick so you can contend for it later. Of course there are exceptions, but this is probably the best way forward for the Flames even if it is embarrassing and ugly. It is what it is.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Agreed I doubt they’ll ever admit it, which seems pointless and petty. All it does in my view is make the management and ownership look incompetent. Either they are in a rebuild and this is an expected result, or it isn’t a rebuild and they are bad at their jobs. Multiple decades of playoff disappointments lead me to believe ownership is incompetent at building a winning club. Yet some continue to wave their pom poms (not you, just a general statement).

Or ...

It's just not good business to publically give up?

Pay more attention to what they are doing and not what they are saying and you see a 80% rebuild taking place right before your eyes.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I wonder though if not spending to the cap to add is b design, or it it is because there was no one worth adding who wanted to sign. Like if Marner decided he wanted to play in Calgary, I have little doubt that they would have used that cap space on him. They aren’t going to spend just for the sake of it, but I think they would if the opportunity came up. Like I don’t think they are turning away expensive star players for rebuild reasons.

I can certainly believe Marner was approached and wouldn't sign.

But there are a lot of tiers on free agency day and I doubt very much no one would come to Calgary.

[dino7c]

Spending the money on a high end player is one thing but just spending it because its burning a hole in your pocket like LA is another. Locking up a Marner for 8 years would be fine with me. Three meh UFAs for that money no thanks. Now that guys are UFAs earlier its different than the old days.

[Press Level]

Rational me is good with the losing for long-term gain. Emotional me is never good with watching my team lose.


Honestly, my biggest concern is that the kids will learn to accept losing, rather than battle to win every night. That's how you become Buffalo or pre-McLottery Edmonton.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Press Level

Rational me is good with the losing for long-term gain. Emotional me is never good with watching my team lose.


Honestly, my biggest concern is that the kids will learn to accept losing, rather than battle to win every night. That's how you become Buffalo or pre-McLottery Edmonton.

And under the current draft rules Edmonton wouldn't have gotten McDavid anyway so they are an irrelevant example of tanking for success. No McDavid they would be another Buffalo still.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Or ...

It's just not good business to publically give up?

Pay more attention to what they are doing and not what they are saying and you see a 80% rebuild taking place right before your eyes.

Saying you’re in a rebuild doesn’t have to mean “giving up”, that’s an unnecessary and simple (binary) point of view. You could simply say “hey we’re rebuilding, times might get tough for a while but we’re going to make sure there’s an entertaining product on the ice and a cup contender when we’re done”. I think everyone understands the flames are in a rebuild, but the question is why. Is it from poor ownership / management? I believe it is. The double speak in the media doesn’t help change that opinion.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Saying you’re in a rebuild doesn’t have to mean “giving up”, that’s an unnecessary and simple (binary) point of view. You could simply say “hey we’re rebuilding, times might get tough for a while but we’re going to make sure there’s an entertaining product on the ice and a cup contender when we’re done”. I think everyone understands the flames are in a rebuild, but the question is why. Is it from poor ownership / management? I believe it is. The double speak in the media doesn’t help change that opinion.

It puts them in a disadvantage in trade discussions and contract negotiations. Only one team I know of publicly announced they were tanking and rebuilding, and they failed at it.

And are we really so soft we need the reassurance of “we are tanking” as opposed to just watching what they have done and seem to be continuing to do?

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It puts them in a disadvantage in trade discussions and contract negotiations. Only one team I know of publicly announced they were tanking and rebuilding, and they failed at it.

Is that true though? If our “80% rebuild” is as obvious to see as Bingo claims it is, I’m sure agents and other teams would see it too.

I could have sworn Chicago and Montreal announced they were rebuilding (Chicago in the last few years, Montreal more recently) but I can’t find an article talking about it.

[calgarygeologist]

I don't necessarily like it but I also expected that they would be down towards the bottom of the league. What could be concerning is if a very bad season sets Dustin Wolf back significantly. He is supposed to be a significant asset going forward but if he plays 50+ games and really struggles because of the rest of the lineup it could be very bad.