Rumor Owners meeting today to approve expansion to 34 teams

[Reggie Dunlop]

Saskatoon is standing by and ready.

[MegaErtz]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Explain how QC is not? They have the ownership group set, the money, and NHL capable arena already. They also would sell out every night.

They don't have the corporate support in Quebec City to make it work. You need to be able to sell out all boxes. If they had more corporate support, they'd have a new stadium and an NHL team, no questions asked.

Canadians are much poorer than Americans. Alberta has the highest average annual income in Canada at $77,000 CAD, or about $56,800 USD. Only Mississippi has a lower average income at $55,060.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ates-by-state/

Gary Bettman can be criticized for a lot of things, but figuring out ways to maximize revenue for the owners is not one of them.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Nothing is widely successful for the league compared to the other three big NA sports. Now he wants to expand back into a market that has failed twice. Meanwhile he ignores a Canadian market with an NHL ready building because it is in Canada. We just saw one of the largest US tv markets lose their franchise to Utah of all places. How anyone can think the NHL has been wildly successful in the second half of Bettman's tenure is unfathomable to me.

Bettmans job is to make the owners money.
He's doing a great job

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Yeah I accidently counted the temporary move due to Katrina and the Raptors temporary move due to COVID.

Gotcha! I was wondering where you got six. Yeah, outside of Vancouver, those teams could/should have survived in those markets.

Charlotte was because an older arena, mainly not enough luxury boxes. Seattle wouldn’t cough up money for a new arena. New Jersey’s previous owner owned land in Brooklyn that he wanted to develop and having an arena there would kick that off.

Whereas the NHL has two failed franchises from the start. Atlanta will relocate a third time if given the chance to start again and Phoenix was never going to work as an NHL location compared to a Vegas.

So it’s hard to compare the leagues just based on numbers of moves, it’s more why did they move.


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[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Bettmans job is to make the owners money.
He's doing a great job

See my post linked to the Athletic. He couldn't possibly not bring in revenue. Someone more competent would have brought in a lot more. He also has failed in making every owner profitable. The majority of media and finance people are not in agreement with you on this one from what I have seen.

[Jiri Hrdina]

The Athletic article is written from the Fan POV not from a business POV. It lacks substance and reads as someone with an axe to grind.
I also generally view that the lockouts were unfortunate but necessary. Of course that's an opinion.

I still find that the arguments against Bettman lack substance.

I guess someone could have delivered growth like he did. But the point is - he did it. He gets the credit.

[Hockey-and_stuff]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

See my post linked to the Athletic. He couldn't possibly not bring in revenue. Someone more competent would have brought in a lot more. He also has failed in making every owner profitable. The majority of media and finance people are not in agreement with you on this one from what I have seen.

Everything you've said is entirely speculative, and one article by a single author is hardly the majority of media finding Bettman to do a bad job. That's an extremely broad statement that lacks any actual proof beyond your anecdotal evidence and one singular article.

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[Jason14h]

If the owners thought Betman was doing a bad job they would fire him

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Hockey-and_stuff

Everything you've said is entirely speculative, and one article by a single author is hardly the majority of media finding Bettman to do a bad job. That's an extremely broad statement that lacks any actual proof beyond your anecdotal evidence and one singular article.

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It's called google. Take your pick. Feel free to show me all the articles of what a great job he has done. Are you going to post something substantial to back your point or are you going to basically say nothing?

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

It's called google. Take your pick. Feel free to show me all the articles of what a great job he has done. Are you going to post something substantial to back your point or are you going to basically say nothing?

You've presumably already done the Google work for your following claim so why not share your results while the other poster is googling your request?

Originally Posted by dissentowner

The majority of media and finance people are not in agreement with you on this one from what I have seen.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by D as in David

You've presumably already done the Google work for your following claim so why not share your results while the other poster is googling your request?

https://montrealgazette.com/opinion/...canadian-teams

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-in-pro-sports

https://sports.yahoo.com/gary-bettma...231720784.html

[Coach]

There’s no extra TV audience in Quebec either. Anyone that wants to watch NHL hockey is watching it.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The Athletic article is written from the Fan POV not from a business POV. It lacks substance and reads as someone with an axe to grind.
I also generally view that the lockouts were unfortunate but necessary. Of course that's an opinion.

I still find that the arguments against Bettman lack substance.

I guess someone could have delivered growth like he did. But the point is - he did it. He gets the credit.

Honestly when I see people critical of Bettman and blame him for the loss of Canadian franchises, or their lack of success - hence why they hate him - I just think they have no business sense whatsoever. They're viewing it purely from an emotional point of view.

Bettman has done a solid job overall for the NHL during his tenure. As long as revenues keep rising, and the game expands in the US and globally, he's doing his job. Could some things on those front be better? I think so, but the foundation for future growth is in place. The NHL and Bettman (and whoever the next commish would be) have to capitalize on their opportunities.

[FanIn80]

I still contend the nhl needs to figure out how to restrict certain teams from hogging all the talent. Yes, the cap technically evened the field out by preventing teams from buying everyone up (Red Wings)... but now we've got players taking less cap space to play in lower taxed states, or cities with beaches or on teams with generational first overall picks.

So, yeah everyone is spending the same amount, and since it's all tied to revenues, it's all affordable... but we'll never see a team like Calgary win a Cup as long as great players are cheap for coastal and southern US teams, and expensive for Canadian and midwest US teams.

As much good as the cap has brought us, it still feels like the havenots watching the haves in the playoffs every year... just like it did before the cap.

(I have no idea how to fix it, and I have no interest in the NHL forcing good players to go to teams they don't want to go to (outside of the draft, of course).)

[browna]

They dodged a Quebec bullet. Limited market with not alot of expansion-ability within the market.

Winnipeg with the combination with their small rink and issues with selling out, aren't out of the financial woods by any means either in the years ahead.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Toonage

If things remain as they are, pretty sure Huberdeau would waive

It's not happening now though. It'll happen when the Flames are on the upswing. Is Huberdeau going to want to go to another rebuilding team after putting his time in during a multi year Flames rebuild.

This will F the Flames.

[Lewis_D]

We don't need any more teams IMO, league is already too big. But I know like many have already discussed, it's all about $$$.

I think it's a shame thinking about how in a slightly different timeline many smaller mid-sized markets would be great hockey cities (similar to a handful of markets in the MLB and NBA) but at this stage in the game it's just not viable anymore. Some that come to mind are Quebec, Portland, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Baltimore, Hartford. But we all know it's gonna be Atlanta and Houston.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by browna

They dodged a Quebec bullet. Limited market with not alot of expansion-ability within the market.

Winnipeg with the combination with their small rink and issues with selling out, aren't out of the financial woods by any means either in the years ahead.

Yeah, Winnipeg is gonna be under watch for the next several years. With the Canadian/Winnipeg economy not that strong, and it being the smallest market in the league, how much tolerance does the owner have in being a charity owner until they either figure out a way to extract suitable profit, or sell the team?

This was always my concern with Winnipeg getting a team back. How long can they actually stay? Unlike Atlanta, there just isn't anything for the NHL to gain there, and it's such a low ceiling for market base.

[Texas Blueliner]

While I agree that we don't really need any more teams, a Houston-Dallas hockey rivalry would be great for the game.

[Strange Brew]

I'm not concerned with watering down of the product, there a ton of great hockey players. And even more really good ones. There is interesting, competitive hockey being played at multiple levels.

Unfortunately with more and more teams, the odds of seeing your team win a championship in your lifetime grows slimmer and slimmer.

As for Houston, Fertitta has set aside funds to put an ice plant in the arena as part of current renovations. I just don't know what he thinks about the likely expansion fee which at the current pace, could easily be $1.5 billion in a couple of years. That is insane money.