[Signing] Flames re-sign Wolf (2 years, $850k AAV)

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by Freeway

The deals you hand out to Dustin Wolf (and others) will be used as precedents for future deals coming out of ELCs. There's no good reason to end up negotiating against yourself.

I was thinking about this last night. The point you are making is valid on the macro level, but think about how all these deals work. When a player is coming up for renegotiation, everyone looks for comparable players. We do it as fans and I am sure the agents and teams do as well. But I can't imagine there are a whole lot of comparables to Wolf? How many goalies of this age that have limited NHL experience but an AHL MVP and back to back AHL goalie of the year titles?

And again, I am not saying he needs a 6x6. I just think as an organization the cost benefit analysis of throwing the guy a few hundred K extra is worth it. The team has loads of cap space in the short term. If Wolf never translates his success to the NHL, you've lost a bit of money. But as an organization you have to hope and count on him continuing his development. Heck, I think a lot of the rebuilding will hinge on it. As strong goalies don't come along often. So if you are assuming he's the real deal, you go easy on him in negotiations now when you have the chance and then you hope for some of that goodwill back down the road.

We as fans talk about the opposite situation quite often; player xyz takes a team friendly deal last time and so now everyone knows they are looking for a payday.

Originally Posted by Goriders

.893 save % and 3.16 GAA so far is what he is. Until that improves he’s probably getting paid what he’s worth.

Yet he put up better numbers than a guy getting 2.2 million?

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Goriders

.893 save % and 3.16 GAA so far is what he is. Until that improves he’s probably getting paid what he’s worth.

The yo-yo act of up and down last year is particularly hard on goalies as shooters and systems in the AHL are just not the same.

He needs a solid few stretches where he's starting 10/12 games this season, traveling and practicing with the team and facing NHL shooters.

The fact he's posting numbers similar to and better than a more established goalie like Vladar in such a limited time is a big positive.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Goriders

.893 save % and 3.16 GAA so far is what he is. Until that improves he’s probably getting paid what he’s worth.

Other posters have already pointed out that the averages don't tell the whole story here. Markstrom was equally bad at the end of the season after the defence had been gutted, and nobody is saying he's an AHL goalie.

[stemit14]

If everything goes as most people think this year for the flames, it will be a rough season to be in the flames net. The defence is very thin at this point or, at the very least, it is untested. Some of the young defencemen acquired over the last year could surprise and the defence may be better than most would think. However, assuming it is as poor as it looks on paper, how should the coaching staff/management handle starts from the goaltenders?

There is the old “win and you’re in” method with an unproven tandem. Where it’s as simple as whichever goalie pulls off a win, gets the next start. I’m not a huge fan of this method when developing a young goalie because I think it promotes a pressured environment but not a confidence building one. And wins could be hard to come by even if the goalie plays well.

I prefer for a plan where Wolf is essentially in the backup role to start the season but he never goes more than a week without playing. Early in the season, try to give him the “easiest” starts. By that I mean against lower-scoring or weaker opponents. Most importantly though… don’t let him sit for long. Even if the team is on a winning streak with Vladar, I think it’s very important for Wolf to get regular starts throughout the season. If he struggles consistently in those starts after a couple months, they can consider sending him down to the Wranglers (although I would prefer they keep him up and let him work through it).

If he shows consistency and plays well for the first couple months, the transition to more frequent starts can happen. Make it more of a 50/50 tandem with Vladar through the middle of the season. If Wolf is playing better than Vladar by the 3/4 mark of the season, start giving him more games than Vladar - essentially flipping the start frequency of Wolf/Vladar from the start of the season. If not, keep it at an even 50/50 split.

This system might seem unfair to Vladar but it does give him the starting role to begin the season - if he outplays Wolf, he gets to keep it but Wolf still gets his regular starts. My hope would be that Wolf plays no less than 30 games this season if he stays healthy.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Askarov to me is a safer bet to become an elite goaltender. High floor, high ceiling.


Wolf to me has just as high of a ceiling, but a lower floor. However, he didn't look out of place at the NHL level outside of a couple of games, and he is hardly a finished product. I wouldn't bet against him at this point.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Askarov to me is a safer bet to become an elite goaltender. High floor, high ceiling.


Wolf to me has just as high of a ceiling, but a lower floor. However, he didn't look out of place at the NHL level outside of a couple of games, and he is hardly a finished product. I wouldn't bet against him at this point.

I don't get the Askarov hype, he reminds me of Samsonov. I will take Wolf over him all day if I am betting on which goalie ends up more successful.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by stemit14

However, assuming it is as poor as it looks on paper, how should the coaching staff/management handle starts from the goaltenders?

I think there would be a plan in place written in pencil based on the schedule. Split back to backs, and travel heavy parts of the schedule. Both goalies would know it, and go from there. Then you have things like fatigue and injuries that go into it.

Moreover, like we saw with Markstrom, there are some teams a certain goalie struggles against, or plays really great against. So a coach might factor that into his decisions. I think that most months will be a 65-35 split. With 65% of the games going to the goalie that lets in the fewer stickers, or the one that the team seems to play better in front of.

I think that as long as the coaching staff is transparent about their goalie decisions, both goalies will develop nicely.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I don't get the Askarov hype, he reminds me of Samsonov. I will take Wolf over him all day if I am betting on which goalie ends up more successful.

Your opinion matters, and you may be correct, but Wolf would not have brought in anywhere close to that value in a trade, so we can assume GM’s around the league feel differently.

Wolf is still a unicorn and will be considered such until he proves otherwise.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

The fact he's posting numbers similar to and better than a more established goalie like Vladar in such a limited time is a big positive.

The fact that Vladar has been injured and been largely the worse goalie in the league the last 2 years suggests a pretty low bar.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Your opinion matters, and you may be correct, but Wolf would not have brought in anywhere close to that value in a trade, so we can assume GM’s around the league feel differently.

Wolf is still a unicorn and will be considered such until he proves otherwise.

What? How could you know that?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by heep223

What? How could you know that?

It’s an opinion, pretty much everything posted here is an opinion.

Every goalie ranking of prospects has Askarov ahead of Wolf. Askarov brought in a large basket of assets. It’s not a stretch.

Wolf has exceptional AHL stats to be sure, but his size makes him a unicorn. Unfortunately, Calgary’s team and defence that will be playing in front of him will make his job all that much harder. He’ll be judged better on the advanced stats than the traditional GAA and SV% I expect.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I don't get the Askarov hype, he reminds me of Samsonov. I will take Wolf over him all day if I am betting on which goalie ends up more successful.

Askarov is a crazy athletic goalie but has an incredibly funky glove hand that I think will absolutely get destroyed at the NHL level.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by stemit14

If everything goes as most people think this year for the flames, it will be a rough season to be in the flames net. The defence is very thin at this point or, at the very least, it is untested. Some of the young defencemen acquired over the last year could surprise and the defence may be better than most would think. However, assuming it is as poor as it looks on paper, how should the coaching staff/management handle starts from the goaltenders?

There is the old “win and you’re in” method with an unproven tandem. Where it’s as simple as whichever goalie pulls off a win, gets the next start. I’m not a huge fan of this method when developing a young goalie because I think it promotes a pressured environment but not a confidence building one. And wins could be hard to come by even if the goalie plays well.

I prefer for a plan where Wolf is essentially in the backup role to start the season but he never goes more than a week without playing. Early in the season, try to give him the “easiest” starts. By that I mean against lower-scoring or weaker opponents. Most importantly though… don’t let him sit for long. Even if the team is on a winning streak with Vladar, I think it’s very important for Wolf to get regular starts throughout the season. If he struggles consistently in those starts after a couple months, they can consider sending him down to the Wranglers (although I would prefer they keep him up and let him work through it).

If he shows consistency and plays well for the first couple months, the transition to more frequent starts can happen. Make it more of a 50/50 tandem with Vladar through the middle of the season. If Wolf is playing better than Vladar by the 3/4 mark of the season, start giving him more games than Vladar - essentially flipping the start frequency of Wolf/Vladar from the start of the season. If not, keep it at an even 50/50 split.

This system might seem unfair to Vladar but it does give him the starting role to begin the season - if he outplays Wolf, he gets to keep it but Wolf still gets his regular starts. My hope would be that Wolf plays no less than 30 games this season if he stays healthy.

Wolf usually takes a handful of consecutive starts to get in the zone. I say give Vladar the first 2 to keep him hungry, then give Wolf 3, 1 night off and then back to Wolf.

[Kipper_3434]

Tkachuk the unicorn = good? Wolf the unicorn = questionable nhl future? I'm really having trouble keeping up with these new age metaphors.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Tkachuk the unicorn = good? Wolf the unicorn = questionable nhl future? I'm really having trouble keeping up with these new age metaphors.

Tkachuk was a unicorn because he had great hockey skills and was an extreme agitator. Both are considered great traits, but few players have both skills in spades. Tkachuk is a unicorn because of a great trait.

Wolf is a unicorn because he appears to have very good hockey skills, but you seldom see them in such a small goalie. As you can see, what makes him unicorn is not a good trait.

Saros is a similar unicorn goalie that has proven himself an elite goalie.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Tkachuk the unicorn = good? Wolf the unicorn = questionable nhl future? I'm really having trouble keeping up with these new age metaphors.

No one said Tkachuk was a unicorn until after the season where he put up 104 points.

Wolf will be a unicorn this year after 40 wins and a 2.20 GAA

[wired]

Originally Posted by stemit14

If everything goes as most people think this year for the flames, it will be a rough season to be in the flames net. The defence is very thin at this point or, at the very least, it is untested. Some of the young defencemen acquired over the last year could surprise and the defence may be better than most would think. However, assuming it is as poor as it looks on paper, how should the coaching staff/management handle starts from the goaltenders?

There is the old “win and you’re in” method with an unproven tandem. Where it’s as simple as whichever goalie pulls off a win, gets the next start. I’m not a huge fan of this method when developing a young goalie because I think it promotes a pressured environment but not a confidence building one. And wins could be hard to come by even if the goalie plays well.

I prefer for a plan where Wolf is essentially in the backup role to start the season but he never goes more than a week without playing. Early in the season, try to give him the “easiest” starts. By that I mean against lower-scoring or weaker opponents. Most importantly though… don’t let him sit for long. Even if the team is on a winning streak with Vladar, I think it’s very important for Wolf to get regular starts throughout the season. If he struggles consistently in those starts after a couple months, they can consider sending him down to the Wranglers (although I would prefer they keep him up and let him work through it).

If he shows consistency and plays well for the first couple months, the transition to more frequent starts can happen. Make it more of a 50/50 tandem with Vladar through the middle of the season. If Wolf is playing better than Vladar by the 3/4 mark of the season, start giving him more games than Vladar - essentially flipping the start frequency of Wolf/Vladar from the start of the season. If not, keep it at an even 50/50 split.

This system might seem unfair to Vladar but it does give him the starting role to begin the season - if he outplays Wolf, he gets to keep it but Wolf still gets his regular starts. My hope would be that Wolf plays no less than 30 games this season if he stays healthy.

Is Vladar not hurt? I thought he had surgery and would not be available to start the season.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by wired

Is Vladar not hurt? I thought he had surgery and would not be available to start the season.

His recovery is on schedule. He should be ready for the start of the season.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1826969736569397628

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

No one said Tkachuk was a unicorn until after the season where he put up 104 points.

Wolf will be a unicorn this year after 40 wins and a 2.20 GAA

I think it was the Florida GM who called him a unicorn when he traded for him.

If Wolf gets 40 wins and a 2.20 GAA, the Flames will have a playoff worthy season.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

His recovery is on schedule. He should be ready for the start of the season.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1826969736569397628

The kid in the aisle seat is flashing him the "L" sign.

That, or he's crushing Vladar's head.