[Trade] Flyers trade Sean Walker to Colorado for Ryan Johansen + a 1st

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Can the Flames trade Kuznetsov and a 2nd for a 1st and a $800k cap dump?

(spoiler: no they can't)

So the Tanev return is... not great.

Keep beating that dru...er...cowbell.

[AC]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Can the Flames trade Kuznetsov and a 2nd for a 1st and a $800k cap dump?

(spoiler: no they can't)

So the Tanev return is... not great.

Or more likely, Kuznetsov and Grushnikov are not equivalent.

Jim Nill praised Grushnikov a hell of a lot on his way out, calling him a 14 year younger Chris Tanev. Time will tell obviously, but both teams clearly seem to liked Grushnikov quite a bit.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Which is baffling. Grushnikov was ranked 11th in the Stars organization by The Athletic. And I say this thinking Grushnikov is still a decent prospect in the vein of a Yan Kuznetsov. But Kuznetsov is not worth a first round pick now. So either the Flames scouts really really really liked Grushnikov, or Conroy got short changed.

For what it's worth, that Jason guy that used to be scouting director of Panthers and other teams, laughed at this point when brought up on a fan 960 interview a week or so ago. He said grushnikov was miles ahead of Kuznetsov and all other similar wrangler defense. Not even in the same league to be nice about it. So I'm not sure your comparison is... Apt, at all

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Oh hell no! That would have been a terrible return with Johansson tied to it.

Johansen is a $800k cap dump. That makes the Tanev return look so much worse.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by AC

Or more likely, Kuznetsov and Grushnikov are not equivalent.

Jim Nill praised Grushnikov a hell of a lot on his way out, calling him a 14 year younger Chris Tanev.

Yup. This (cannon) is a super odd take.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

For what it's worth, that Jason guy that used to be scouting director of Panthers and other teams, laughed at this point when brought up on a fan 960 interview a week or so ago. He said grushnikov was miles ahead of Kuznetsov and all other similar wrangler defense. Not even in the same league to be nice about it. So I'm not sure your comparison is... Apt, at all

Go see where The Athletic rank Kuznetsov and get back to me.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by bax

Curious why you think that?

He was awful in Nashville last season and was bought out. Got this deal from Colorado and has underwhelmed massively. Now he will be 32 next season in Philly. Seems like he just a cap dump and nothing else.

Not bought out I think. Traded with 50% retention. Nashville got Alex Galchenyuk's signing rights "hooray". I don't think he signed a new deal with the Avs - he's on year 7 of his 8 year contract making $8M from various sources.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Johansen is a $800k cap dump. That makes the Tanev return look so much worse.

Johansen has another year at 4M..

[powderjunkie]

Johansen's last 6 seasons:

good
meh
bad
good
meh
bad

there is a pattern here. And next year is a contract year.

If you revise expectations to a mediocre 3rd line C who disappoints you a lot but occasionally shows flashes of good, it's a gamble I would take.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Draft picks can be bought in the NBA. 2nd round picks usually get sold or traded for 2 million.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Go see where The Athletic rank Kuznetsov and get back to me.

Vs a former, recent NHL scouting director?

Only if you go listen to the interview.

So odd. So very odd.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Johansen is a $800k cap dump. That makes the Tanev return look so much worse.

$4 million this year and next.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Can the Flames trade Kuznetsov and a 2nd for a 1st and a $800k cap dump?

(spoiler: no they can't)

So the Tanev return is... not great.

They were apparently offered Edmonton's first and Ceci. Ceci makes $3.25 and is paid $4.5 this year and 3.5 next year. That's not an $800K cap dump.

If you are comparing this to Johansen, he makes $4M from the Avs. And I doubt Walker is a rental like Tanev.

[Philly06Cup]

So much emphasis on 'a first'.

Flames essentially received two mid round seconds for Tanev. Two mid round seconds is roughly equivalent to a late first.

Flyers get a late first, but Johansen is significant negative value (Something something Sean Monahan trade). Walker's true value is closer to a late second after factoring in Johansen.

[FlamesAreOne]

What is Joe doing!?

[Geeoff]

Johansen is a guy with effort issues. Perhaps the Flames didn't want him around prospects

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by AC

Or more likely, Kuznetsov and Grushnikov are not equivalent.

Jim Nill praised Grushnikov a hell of a lot on his way out, calling him a 14 year younger Chris Tanev. Time will tell obviously, but both teams clearly seem to liked Grushnikov quite a bit.

Man Flames fans will really twist themselves in knots to justify an obviously bad deal.

Grushnikov is not worth a first round pick no matter how you try to spin it. He was a surprise pick in the second round the year he was drafted. He plays very similar minutes to Kuznetsov in the AHL and puts up very similar numbers. Despite what some dude says, the comparison is apt.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by FlamesAreOne

What is Joe doing!?

Letting his GM improve their team?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Man Flames fans will really twist themselves in knots to justify an obviously bad deal.

Grushnikov is not worth a first round pick no matter how you try to spin it. He was a surprise pick in the second round the year he was drafted. He plays very similar minutes to Kuznetsov in the AHL and puts up very similar numbers. Despite what some dude says, the comparison is apt.

Dude, no one is comparing Grushnikov to a first. They are comparing Grushnikov PLUS a second rounder to a first.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Johansen is a $800k cap dump. That makes the Tanev return look so much worse.

Even before Johansson was tied to it the Tanev return was still better. You are getting an established defensive D prospect that was taken in the 2nd round and a 2nd that in this draft is the same lottery ticket as a late 1st. The player you get in this draft in the late 1st has about the same odds of panning out as a guy you take in the late 2nd.