I'm looking for a good set of headphones to listen to music. I don't want noise cancelling or a mic. Just listen to music, primarily rock. budget under $400. Any recommendations?
You have a ton of choices that'll fit that budget. What kind of sound are you looking for?
I like Sennheiser so the HD600 for a neutral sound or the HD650 (or HD6XX) for a warmer tone.
The Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro or Hifiman Sundara are also good for the price.
It all depends on your personal taste so try them out if you can.
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I'm looking for a good set of headphones to listen to music. I don't want noise cancelling or a mic. Just listen to music, primarily rock. budget under $400. Any recommendations?
What are you listening from and how much power does it have? An mp3 player/phone, a system with a DAC or amp, a receiver, a controller (console, roku etc.)?
Do you want open back or closed back? (sound isolation, or allow a little bit of ambient noise for a bigger sound stage)
Do you need mobility (ie: Walking around)? Or will you just be using it while in a sitting type application (ie: desk or chair)?
In a car, would you tweak the balance (ie: Treble/Bass) to get the sound you like? If yes, do you leave it on neutral or do you +/- treble and bass?
Do you have any other experience with headphones that give insight on your preference?
I assume you want "tin can" wired headphones, not IEM or wireless with all the extra stuff (which great options can still be found in your budget at similar prices to wired headphones).
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Honestly speaking, I think you'll have many great options in the $200-300 range. I've owned the AKG 701, Sennheiser HD595, Beyerdynamic DT 770 pro and 990 pro and all at around $200-300 are great in their own way. For me personally, I use the 990 pro as a "baseline", but also when I need to have open back to hear my kids whining at night.
Headphones go on sale! Use a price tracker to see what a good price is and perhaps wait for a sale depending on how deeply those discounts go. Sennheiser is one that I recall kinda has some crazier sales discounts up to 30% at times or around $60-80 off. 10-20% on the others are still close to $30-60 off. I usually use Camelcamelcamel as a price tracker for Amazon.
I use my Audio Technica in a more analytical or immersive application for listening, movies etc. But sometimes when I don't want to be bombarded with sound, I go back to the DT990. Basically I have two sets of headphones that are different that can round each other out in an overall experience depending on my mood and I love this set up. Depending on how you like to listen, maybe pushing your full $400 budget to $450 or $500, to grab a pair of headphones isn't a bad idea.
Good pairing combos closer to a $500 budget would be:
DT770 pro + HD599 (Closed warm + Open neutral)
DT990 pro + ATH-M50x (Open warm + Closed clear)
DT990 pro + AKG 701/702 (Open warm + Open clear)
DT770 pro + ATH M50x (Closed warm + Closed clear)
I own a pair of $1000+ headphones and while I love the extra sound, TBH, the vast majority of people cannot hear a difference from these premium headphones mentioned above and below. I only rarely run into media where I realize these headphones are producing a background sound at lower volumes that the others aren't producing well. You wouldn't hear that sound unless you are cranking up the volume to levels that would make you deaf in short order. But these sounds are kinda innocuous like bird chirps in the background, differentiating the different drums with higher accuracy and stuff like that. Nothing primary. Just things that almost feel like an easter egg.
Soundstage is another that you may notice on certain higher end headphones. A wider soundstage is great for stuff that feels like it's supposed to be in a big room (bigger stage). That's like the live concert recordings, concerts, cathedrals, orchestras etc. type sound. It sounds "airy". But sometimes you don't need as big of a sound stage for things like recording studio versions of songs and small intimate area live recordings like a cafe or jam session.
But that being said, for some, less is more. Some headphones will make people feel "tired" due to the extra clarity or over focus on a range. For me, I still own the HD595, DT990 pro and an ATH headphone. I will bounce around between open back, closed back depending on if I'm listening to certain music or in a certain way or if I'm plugging the headphones to the receiver to watch a movie vs plugging into my PS5 controller.
You can also play with the equalizer with whatever you're using to listen to to also tweak the sound, but it only goes so far because of what the capabilities of the headphones are. So unfortunately, you're not going to be able to use the equalizer to go from a warm tone set of headphones to something studio clarity level. You can however use it to slightly play with the balance to match your personal preferences and you might be able to play with the sound stage to widen or make it more intimate. I occasionally do this on my receiver for movies, games and depending on the style of music for curiosity sake. I could technically also use this if I didn't want to be overloaded on sound clarity, but it's easier to just quickly unplug a headphone for the other that is more preferrable in that situation.
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For rock... I think the DT990 pro mentioned earlier is a good recommendation. It's a little bit warmer and focuses on mid/low tones which works well with rock. This one is an open back headphone. Some of the lows might feel like they aren't as distinct due to the open back, if that's the case, do closed back. https://www.amazon.ca/beyerdynamic-9...9a9930752&th=1
You're probably aiming at the 32 or 80 ohm version unless you have a full pre amp post amp set up to really let a 250 ohm version do its thing.
Heavier bass focus type headphones are typically Sony. Some complain there's too much bass making it hard to focus on the other ranges, but unlike certain other headphones (ie: Beats), IMO the Sony still retains refined sound in the mid and high even with that heavy bass. Some people like that a lot. Some do not when they go into audiophile quality stuff. However, I will say that lots of the stuff out there seems to be engineered to be a bit bass heavy lately and a clubbing music type sound and the Sony would excel at this.
Sennheiser HD 599. Should be similar to the above with very little noticeable differences other than perhaps build quality. Open back. IIRC, Sennheiser has a bit of a wider soundstage than DT990. https://www.amazon.ca/Sennheiser-HD-...s%2C149&sr=8-5
Last edited by DoubleF; 07-03-2024 at 02:21 PM.
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https://drop.com/ has some of those and the prices can be good even after exchange and shipping, I've ordered from them before.
My gaming headset (Sennheiser PC38X from Drop which I've really liked) is feeling a little old, the volume on it crackles when adjusting and one side will be muted if you don't fiddle with the dial, and I haven't used the mic in forever so I was thinking of getting something.
I like the open back ones, was thinking of the DT990 Pro. Drop also has HIFIMAN HE4XX and HE5XX for $169 and $199USD.
My PC38X are incredibly comfortable, I can wear them all day no issues. But the newer Sennheisers have a little gap in their headband cushion and I don't know why but it actually causes me pain after a while. I thought I has having some kind of weird burning top of head headache but nope it was just the headphones.
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Is there anywhere in town that you can try out some of these? The Sennheiser HD650 is probably the best headphones I've ever tried, would be interesting to know if I would be able to appreciate the Sundaras or similar.
EDIT: Town meaning Calgary
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Is there anywhere in town that you can try out some of these? The Sennheiser HD650 is probably the best headphones I've ever tried, would be interesting to know if I would be able to appreciate the Sundaras or similar.
EDIT: Town meaning Calgary
Long & McQuade and the Audio Room although the latter usually has higher end stuff like Focal and Audeze.
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https://drop.com/ has some of those and the prices can be good even after exchange and shipping, I've ordered from them before.
My gaming headset (Sennheiser PC38X from Drop which I've really liked) is feeling a little old, the volume on it crackles when adjusting and one side will be muted if you don't fiddle with the dial, and I haven't used the mic in forever so I was thinking of getting something.
I like the open back ones, was thinking of the DT990 Pro. Drop also has HIFIMAN HE4XX and HE5XX for $169 and $199USD.
My PC38X are incredibly comfortable, I can wear them all day no issues. But the newer Sennheisers have a little gap in their headband cushion and I don't know why but it actually causes me pain after a while. I thought I has having some kind of weird burning top of head headache but nope it was just the headphones.
I find Sennheisers were very comfortable, but their build quality leaves a little to be desired vs other brands in that $300 ish dollar range headphone. Like, I've never heard of anyone breaking a pair, but when you compare headband on other brands, it kinda feels seems like a thin flimsy plastic shim slipped in between the band. Same as the foam ear cups. This doesn't affect performance at all, but it just doesn't feel as premium as the others. I don't know if the HD 650 addresses this.
In comparison, the Beyerdynamic is metal attachment and ATH are a more durable plastic attachment design which feels more robust.
Also, when you get into the $300 ish realm, the ear cups on many headphones are way more comfortable than they look.
The Beyerdynamic and K701 cups look like they could be a little scratchy, but they're super soft.
The ATH leather cups look like they could be firm, but they're so damn soft. I had no clue leather could be that soft. I've had other leather cup headphones (Sennheiser HD280) which was a firm faux leather. Not remotely close to each other in terms of comfort.
The way I'd put it... is that you can get really damn good performing Sennheisers at around $200-240 CAD on sale. For $220-300, the overall calibre of performance is IMO about the same, but you're paying a slight premium for durability, comfort and other minor preferences. That being said, it's worth the premium.
I've never tried Phillips or Hifiman, but if it's well reviewed, I'm sure there's a reason for it.
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I find the k-702 is pretty awesome. Can use it for gaming very easily, as it's no slouch for soundstage. It gets criticized a lot but to get better soundstage you're almost looking at the hd800, which I've never tried. The main criticism being lack of bass but it's super tight and detailed, giving the other instruments room to breathe so is why they're used in mixing.
Sundara was on my list but I have the 400i as well which is quite similar. I don't think you'd have any complaints.
Last edited by calumniate; 07-03-2024 at 10:38 PM.
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I find the k-702 is pretty awesome. Can use it for gaming very easily, as it's no slouch for soundstage. It gets criticized a lot but to get better soundstage you're almost looking at the hd800, which I've never tried. The main criticism being lack of bass but it's super tight and detailed.
Sundara was on my list but I have the 400i as well which is quite similar. I don't think you'd have any complaints.
My brother uses (used?) the Q701 for computer gaming and music stuff for a long time (decade plus). He always said it was pretty good, but returned like half a dozen headphones and headsets he bought trying to replace them. AKG is a great versatile headphone for sure. I gave it to him because it was hard to power those 250 ohm Q701 with a portable mp3 player.
No regrets going down from the Q701 to the Beyerdynamic 770 pros/990 pros, but I wanted something in that realm again. I recently bought a pair of ATH AP2000Ti at half off retail because used. I totally get what you mean when you say you'd probably need a pair of HD800s to unequivocally defeat the Q701/K702. It's crazy that after those $300 headphones, you're looking at around the $1K range to truly upgrade it.
How are hifiman headphones? They kinda look like if Beyerdynamic and Grado headphones had a kid together visually. But how's the comfort and performance? I almost bought them, but ponied up extra for the 2000Ti.
My brother uses (used?) the Q701 for computer gaming and music stuff for a long time (decade plus). He always said it was pretty good, but returned like half a dozen headphones and headsets he bought trying to replace them. AKG is a great versatile headphone for sure. I gave it to him because it was hard to power those 250 ohm Q701 with a portable mp3 player.
No regrets going down from the Q701 to the Beyerdynamic 770 pros/990 pros, but I wanted something in that realm again. I recently bought a pair of ATH AP2000Ti at half off retail because used. I totally get what you mean when you say you'd probably need a pair of HD800s to unequivocally defeat the Q701/K702. It's crazy that after those $300 headphones, you're looking at around the $1K range to truly upgrade it.
How are hifiman headphones? They kinda look like if Beyerdynamic and Grado headphones had a kid together visually. But how's the comfort and performance? I almost bought them, but ponied up extra for the 2000Ti.
The hifiman 400i are very different from the k702. They seem to have quite a bit more bass and less soundstage. But the end result is a very warm 'in your head' type of experience. I actually like how different they are. Comfort wise I modded the headband and if I were to purchase again would probably go with the sundara that seems to have the better strap.
Sorry to all the people in this thread that are more interested in 'hifi' and not ~$250 headphones lol.
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The hifiman 400i are very different from the k702. They seem to have quite a bit more bass and less soundstage. But the end result is a very warm 'in your head' type of experience. I actually like how different they are. Comfort wise I modded the headband and if I were to purchase again would probably go with the sundara that seems to have the better strap.
Sorry to all the people in this thread that are more interested in 'hifi' and not ~$250 headphones lol.
Well, there's Hifi systems that should allow for occasional headphone usage, no? They're both accessories chasing the same thing but one fills a more personal space and the other is designed to fill an intimate space. This thread is making me want to look into a receiver, speaker and amp upgrade. Bleh. I must fight it.
I mean, I'm sitting maybe 100 meters away from sets of $5 to 50K speakers that I can notice the difference, but I have absolutely no intention of ever entering into that realm of audio quality/set up. I've also experimented with pairing headphones with less thundering bass with a wearable subwoofer. It's very fun and it's very interesting and fun to experience a physical bass effect vs getting a bass effect via sound. I also have bone conduction headphones for other specific applications. Different flavors is fun.
After reading your comments and a few more online, without having listened to it, I almost want to say the Sundara are in a similar realm to the K702/ATH offerings and the 400i are in a similar realm to the DT770 pro and DT990 pro. It seems that based on many comments I read, that those that can hear the difference find the differences distinct. But those that cannot or are unsure what they're listening for, it's basically splitting hairs.
After mulling things over and thinking about some of the comments, I think I'd recommend the following methodology to bossy22 and photon.
bossy22:
Spoiler!
- Not sure what your preferences are like and how many differences you'd notice in the Mid-Fi to HiFi range of headphones... so I'd recommend starting simple.
- Instead of buying a single headphone (or if you have a pair, factor them into your decision), buy two pairs of headphones with "alternate flavors" for around your budget of $400 (Average $200 each depending on deals, new or used). Let each pair perform differently and combined they round out your overall experience.
- Since your preference is rock, I'd probably recommend you start with the neutral sounding Sennheiser HD599 (open). Spend some time listening to the vast majority of your favourite playlist/songs without tweaking EQ, perhaps some songs more than once. Then go through it again with some EQ and see if you like or dislike the EQ effects. This allows you to start in the centre and establish if you want to round out your experience with a warmer or clearer set of headphones and if you've never tried open, it'll give you an idea if you want to keep them/round out/replace with a pair of open or closed cans.
- Different headphones for different music/different styles of recording and perhaps different applications (gaming, movies etc.) or even your own personal and subjective analysis on certain songs/pieces. Or if the HD599 is something you like and all you want, that's fine too.
- Then you have two preferences to basically identify: Open or closed and if you like the sounds blending into each other or if you like if each individual type of sound was a little more isolated from each other. (ie: "warm or clear"). There is no wrong answer.
photon:
Spoiler!
- If you liked the HD650, I believe the Sundara are in the same "realm" of sound out of the box but the Sundara can be EQ tweaked into the realm of the HD800.
- Sundara might be slightly better for music without tweaking the EQ settings and sound stage settings. DT990 pro might be better for gaming and movies than music without tweaking. At least those types of comments I saw more than once.
- Both DT990 pro and Sundara are quite capable of noticeable enhancements to sound via EQ settings, I've read that the DT990 pro may need more EQ "tweaking" than the Sundara from default to really appreciate, but this is subjective. I've read many comments that the DT990 pro are bad without tweaking.
- Playing with EQ settings isn't as arduous as it sounds, especially if you have something with presets like cinema, music, tv, sound stage size etc. or even further fine tuned combinations like "normal, pop, rock, classical, metal, vocal" etc. on something that is more dedicated to music. Once you change settings, it should be immediately evident that there are differences.
- Give the DT880s a try if they're available. It might be the perfect balance of what you're looking for between the HD650 and Sundara.
- Ignore price and value at first. Go with what feels good overall for you. Hopefully you can play with some EQ settings when you test out the headphones. However, it's not always easy to identify what you like without being able to test it on your normal stuff. (Similar difficulties when you listen to speakers in a store with their setup vs your own set up).
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Only downside for the DT880 is a little harder to get the premium edition vs the pro (premium is more comfortable?), I can get the DT990 or the AKG K 701 easy on Amazon
Interesting that the DT880 are "semi-open", that seems interesting to me.
Thanks, first will be to go to L&M to test what they have.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Only downside for the DT880 is a little harder to get the premium edition vs the pro (premium is more comfortable?), I can get the DT990 or the AKG K 701 easy on Amazon
Interesting that the DT880 are "semi-open", that seems interesting to me.
Thanks, first will be to go to L&M to test what they have.
Yeah going to L&M to try some stuff (try as much as possible, even those not recommended here) is a great idea. Does Bestbuy still have the ability to try some of these types of products? Or is it speakers only?
Another method is to get Amazon Prime, buy off Amazon and return the one you don't prefer for full refund if you don't like it for reasons of "performance not as expected". Amazon is fine with this and it's no difference than doing the same at a brick and mortar store because you were very disappointed in the performance of what you bought.
Isn't it the other way around that the 880 premium is available but not pro on Amazon? I see the DT880 premium on Amazon. Ugh, and now I see a set for $160 open box. It's so tempting to see what it's like. The performance is supposed to be near identical for premium and pro. Main differences I've identified on a quick search is mostly cosmetic, coiled vs straight cable and clamping strength of band.
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Oh you're right Amazon has the premium, but it's $370 (or $300 for the 32 Ohm) vs $229 from avshop.ca (no idea if that site is any good) or $250 for the Pro from L&M.
EDIT: Hm some used DT990's on Facebook, one looks almost unused, man I'm not sure about buying used headphones...
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Beyer's have alot of reviews of being too 'bright'. So I've always avoided them as I find bright speakers / headphones to be too fatiguing
Without EQing, I can agree to this. Beyers seem to give you everything out of the box. You have to narrow then amplify what you like which is two steps. Many may not realize they need to do two steps and aren't ready for that. The DT990 pro seem to come out of the box with a range more suited for a closed headphone. Because it's open, I can see why some people really were thrown off by its performance out of the box.
Many others brands are already pre-narrowed in their signature range and users can simply focus on amplifying so it's just one step. Playing outside of the factory settings range is an extra step, but because you're intentional, you kinda know what you're in for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by photon
Oh you're right Amazon has the premium, but it's $370 (or $300 for the 32 Ohm) vs $229 from avshop.ca (no idea if that site is any good) or $250 for the Pro from L&M.
EDIT: Hm some used DT990's on Facebook, one looks almost unused, man I'm not sure about buying used headphones...
Replacing pads is only like $10-30 and 10-20 minutes. If you target a set from someone that really takes care of their gear, you'll be far less likely to get into a crappy situation.
Well that sucked they only had one open backed headset to demo (the DT990) and they didn't have it hooked up to a proper amp so it wasn't really a good test of it. Even cranked it was pretty quiet compared to the store environment. I could hear the other headsets just hanging on the wall they were blasting so loud. It was pretty comfortable to wear so I don't think that will be an issue.
They also had some cheaper AKG ones but they had a similar design to the 701s and they were REALLY comfortable. And they just look cool.
Probably just going to have to just get one of the candidates and see how it goes.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Thanks for all of the information. It's a lot. I really don't know anything about headphones. I just started getting back into music, and have been enjoying it. I really only listen on my iphone or macbook. I didn't know anything about needing amps, EQs or DAC's for headphones. What I ended up doing is getting some Sennheiser HD560s for $200 with the iphone adapter for $10. I could see how this is going to become something bigger so I figured I would start there so I could listen now and start going to hifi stores and check out other higher end headphones to buy in the future...black friday.
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Thanks for all of the information. It's a lot. I really don't know anything about headphones. I just started getting back into music, and have been enjoying it. I really only listen on my iphone or macbook. I didn't know anything about needing amps, EQs or DAC's for headphones. What I ended up doing is getting some Sennheiser HD560s for $200 with the iphone adapter for $10. I could see how this is going to become something bigger so I figured I would start there so I could listen now and start going to hifi stores and check out other higher end headphones to buy in the future...black friday.
Congrats! The HD560 is a good choice. No need for DACs and Amps because the resistance (ohm) is low. On your iPhone, EQ is as easy as going to Settings -> Music -> EQ. Toggle those while listening to your music. Definitely compare off vs rock EQ settings.
I highly recommend you stop here if possible. But if not... welcome to the audio addicts club!
I bought a pair of DT880 premiums yesterday...
EDIT: Dang, I didn't expect to like the DT880 premiums as much as I do right now. It makes me want to see if I can borrow or broker a trade for the DT770 pro and have the trifecta together for side by side comparisons and different applications. I'm excited.
I just have to explain to my wife now that when one headphone is left with another for too long, they can sometimes create another headphone...
I got the DT990's off a guy on Facebook who said he'd only used them a few hours, I totally believe it they look brand new.
Very happy with them so far in music. I was surprised my phone can actually manage a decent volume level with them without any kind of amp.
Once I got them home on my computer with my amp they're very nice, it's interesting to hear things in songs that you didn't hear before
At first I thought maybe they're fatiguing but realized that after changing my external sound card to support the higher impendence it is just significantly louder overall than my previous headset at the same volume level.
Will have to play around with the EQ a bit I could see backing off the highs a bit.
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They're both accessories chasing the same thing but one fills a more personal space and the other is designed to fill an intimate space. This thread is making me want to look into a receiver, speaker and amp upgrade. Bleh. I must fight it. 
