The Darryl Sutter effect: Assessing the aftermath - Page 5 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

TheChief · 10-01-2023, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Now, what was the one constant that caused/led to those things?

What about the year before when he won COTY and we witnessed the greatest flames season since the 80's?

You turn over two star players for two guys that immediately pouted and this is what happens. Not on Sutter.

Enoch Root · 10-01-2023, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheChief

What about the year before when he won COTY and we witnessed the greatest flames season since the 80's?

You turn over two star players for two guys that immediately pouted and this is what happens. Not on Sutter.

So the players can have a bad season, but Sutter can't?

Blaming Sutter for everything is a bad take. But at the same time, absolving him of blame is an equally bad take.

Sutter was a huge problem last year. Not the only problem, but a big one

Saqe · 10-01-2023, 04:11 PM

I guess we will see this year how big of a problem Sutter was. If the team lays another egg then clearly there were bigger problems than him. Also I find it curious that people mostly blame the guy who is the only one to ever win anything and has a HOF track record to back up his even questionable behavior.

Sandman · 10-01-2023, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheChief

What about the year before when he won COTY and we witnessed the greatest flames season since the 80's?

You turn over two star players for two guys that immediately pouted and this is what happens. Not on Sutter.

Like I said in the previous page, Sutter coached last year's team differently due to his perception that there wasn't enough offense in the lineup from losing two 40-goal scorers- he even said it himself, straight out of his mouth. The forwards had any and all creativity sucked out of them by Sutter's "high shot volume" scheme. It's a good bet you'll see both players bounce back this year.

RedHawk12 · 10-01-2023, 04:30 PM

I'm confident in saying that Sutter being the head coach of this team played a fairly significant role in Johnny deciding not to re-sign and Tkachuk requesting a trade.

I respect Sutter for saving this franchise from purgatory his first time round as coach, but Sutter the GM set this franchise back about a decade, and Sutter's second stint as coach will likely set this franchise back another 5 years. When all is said and done, for all that Darryl has accomplished as a HOF hockey man in general (as a player and as a coach), I think he will have had a net negative impact on the Flames franchise as a whole.

Locke · 10-01-2023, 04:37 PM

Look...I dont know how much of this is Sutter and how much is other things.

We had atrocious goaltending, Huberdeau was thoroughly uninspiring his passing last season was horrible. Behind people, to nobody, blind passes that became turnovers, he was awful.

Kadri started out like a Bat out of Hell and then just cratered before the half-way mark and was brutal after that.

Our OT record...well it speaks for itself. Even a slight improvement and things are very different.

So I'm not going to say its all Sutter's fault, but he was certainly a factor. He honestly looked like a man who didnt want to be there anymore.

And the rest of them? They'd best pull their heads out of their asses.

blankall · 10-01-2023, 05:14 PM

A major Sutter issue the flames had was his refusal to give prospects playing time. The flames now have a major logjam of prospects trying to break into the system, without enough NHL playing experience. The organization had also started bleeding prospects. Valimaki and Philips left. Another year of giving prime playing time to guys life Ritchie, and the flames are losing higher end prospects.

gvitaly · 10-01-2023, 05:21 PM

The biggest reason I have a hard time blaming Sutter for everything is that this team quit on coaches every 2nd season for a while now. Most of our current players weren't here under Gulutzan/Hartley so I won't take them into account.

Peters - Great year 1, won the West. 2nd year the Flames had 1 or 2 games over .500 around black friday. Either 4th or 5th in the pacific.

Ward - Did fine as an Interim HC, was fired mid way through his first season as a HC.

Sutter - Not enough time to get back into the playoffs in the Canadian division. Won the Pacific in year 2. Lost the room in year 3.

A similar pattern happened with Gulutzan and Hartley. One coach is too soft the other is too hard, and the coaching pendulum keeps swinging.

GioforPM · 10-01-2023, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheChief

What about the year before when he won COTY and we witnessed the greatest flames season since the 80's?

You turn over two star players for two guys that immediately pouted and this is what happens. Not on Sutter.

??

Huberdeau never pouted. He apparently disagreed with Suuter’s game plan but I didn’t see a lack of effort as a result. Kadri didn’t pout either. I think he got worn out. Or did you mean Weegar (since Kadri wasn’t even traded for anyone). Can’t be - Weegar was fine.

Sutter can be a good coach in the right circumstances, obviously. His tracks record says so. He’s also demonstrably a coach that players get tired of pretty quickly - see every other job he’s had. He was locked out of the room in LA, despite his two cups.

blankall · 10-01-2023, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

??

Huberdeau never pouted. He apparently disagreed with Suuter’s game plan but I didn’t see a lack of effort as a result. Kadri didn’t pout either. I think he got worn out. Or did you mean Weegar (since Kadri wasn’t even traded for anyone). Can’t be - Weegar was fine.

Sutter can be a good coach in the right circumstances, obviously. His tracks record says so. He’s also demonstrably a coach that players get tired of pretty quickly - see every other job he’s had. He was locked out of the room in LA, despite his two cups.

The game has changed. Sutter hasn't. In fact, he's gotten more Sutter.

GioforPM · 10-01-2023, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blankall

The game has changed. Sutter hasn't. In fact, he's gotten more Sutter.

That's true. But it's also the case that Sutter has worn out his welcome with every group of players he coached. Maybe except his first stint with Calgary when he quit after only a couple years.

FormerPresJamesTaylor · 10-01-2023, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That's true. But it's also the case that Sutter has worn out his welcome with every group of players he coached. Maybe except his first stint with Calgary when he quit after only a couple years.

Well not in Chicago, where he stepped down, and not in San Jose, where he was fired after after making the playoffs five years in a row, not in Calgary where he stepped down. But he certainly wore out his welcome with the Kings, after winning two cups and in Calgary the second time.

There certainly is an endless amount of revisionist history in your post. Most coaches wear out their welcome; Sutter's only true failure was his second stint in Calgary, where he won coach of the year then the team imploded going into the next season.

Sutter deserved to be fired here but we're seeing some weird things thrown around the last two days. Jiri might have some inside info regarding support staff but Textcritic blinding parroting him and you revising history is just utterly bizarre.

Sutter wore out his welcome in Chicago, San Jose, and Calgary the first time (as coach)?

News to me, news to everyone.

Locke · 10-01-2023, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blankall

The game has changed. Sutter hasn't. In fact, he's gotten more Sutter.

And yet he was only a year removed from the Jack Adams.

So much of this doesnt make sense. I'm not going to say he shouldnt have been fired, he absolutely should have...there just too many pieces that dont quite fit.

Snuffleupagus · 10-01-2023, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

And yet he was only a year removed from the Jack Adams.

So much of this doesnt make sense. I'm not going to say he shouldnt have been fired, he absolutely should have...there just too many pieces that dont quite fit.

The Chucky and Johnny show got him the Jack Adams

Locke · 10-01-2023, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

The Chucky and Johnny show got him the Jack Adams

Uh...theres definitely a case to be made for that too.

FormerPresJamesTaylor · 10-01-2023, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

The Chucky and Johnny show got him the Jack Adams

That's different than any other coach of the year? Who deserved it above Sutter that year?

Snuffleupagus · 10-01-2023, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

That's different than any other coach of the year? Who deserved it above Sutter that year?

Just pointing out why he got it, I'll give him credit for leaving the best line in hockey together but he didn't pull off some sort of wizardry to win the JA

FormerPresJamesTaylor · 10-01-2023, 08:55 PM

So a coach of the year had great players (standard)
And he wasn't a wizard (something no one claimed)

Great stuff.

Fighting Banana Slug · 10-01-2023, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

So a coach of the year had great players (standard)
And he wasn't a wizard (something no one claimed)

Great stuff.

So do you think he coached well last year?

I think Sutter is a HOF coach. I also think he was awful last year and deserved to be fired. Both can be true at the same time.

FormerPresJamesTaylor · 10-01-2023, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

So do you think he coached well last year?
e.

No, I already said he deserved to be turfed.