Not so fast. France kind of owes these uneducated, conservative and rural populations from the colonies they subjugated for hundreds of years. This is a result of their own damn foreign policy coming home to roost. Canada did not occupy and subjugate foreign lands for any period of time.
Like the great Russell Peters said when joking about the British finally leaving India and the Indian response: "We're coming with you!"
You have to be kidding right?
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On one hand, I'm glad I have Travel Insurance and got a refundable hotel, on the other hand, still fully intend to be in Paris in 2.5 weeks for a conference.
The English occupied this continent and created an entity called British North America which later became the dominion of Canada, which later became a country in 1931.
The entity known as Canada did not occupy or subjugate foreign lands i.e.: anything outside of the territory of Canada.
Obviously you are referencing the treatment of Indigenous peoples, but those nations are within Canada, not outside of it.
If you are hinting at the occupation of Germany, it was officially Britian, and that is a stretch to call it subjugation.
Interesting to me the French have an epic military history, including Napoleon occupying Berlin, yet one defeat to the Nazis and they are a bunch of white flag wavers who can't fight.
One of the most successful land armies in European history:
Ferguson, Niall (2001). The Cash Nexus: Money and Power in the Modern World, 1700–2000
Quote:
According to British historian Niall Ferguson, out of all recorded conflicts which occurred since the year 387 BC, France has fought in 168 of them, won 109, lost 49 and drawn 10; this makes France the most successful military power in European history in terms of number of fought and won.
Interesting to me the French have an epic military history, including Napoleon occupying Berlin, yet one defeat to the Nazis and they are a bunch of white flag wavers who can't fight.
Budget Cuts.
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Ha let me get this straight they are burning the city down.
Not honking horns.
It's all relative.
French protests are typically a lot more violent than Canada's.
I happened to be in france during the 2007 election. Paris was filled with cops in riot gear all day knowing that regardless who won, there would be civil unrest.
French protests are typically a lot more violent than Canada's.
I happened to be in france during the 2007 election. Paris was filled with cops in riot gear all day knowing that regardless who won, there would be civil unrest.
When I was Paris last year for the Champions' League Final it was essentially a police state. Men with machine guns on every corner.
Although, in fairness you're mixing the local French with the always congenial and polite English Soccer fans and the notoriously calm and level-headed Spanish fans.
So...
Although I will admit I witnessed no issues other than taking down a riot cop entirely by drunken accident.
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The English occupied this continent and created an entity called British North America which later became the dominion of Canada, which later became a country in 1931.
The entity known as Canada did not occupy or subjugate foreign lands i.e.: anything outside of the territory of Canada.
Obviously you are referencing the treatment of Indigenous peoples, but those nations are within Canada, not outside of it.
If you are hinting at the occupation of Germany, it was officially Britian, and that is a stretch to call it subjugation.
Canada's existence is wholly predicated on the subjugation of foreign lands, that we didn't leave doesn't mean they were any less foreign and any less subjugated, there isn't some time limit where if you stay longer than 50 years they are no longer foreign or stolen
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In the case of Quebec Canada was created by double subjugation, we invaded and subjugated the French who had in themselves invaded and subjected the Natives
Canada's existence is wholly predicated on the subjugation of foreign lands, that we didn't leave doesn't mean they were any less foreign and any less subjugated, there isn't some time limit where if you stay longer than 50 years they are no longer foreign or stolen
To add to this, the French didn't go out of their way to exterminate the people of North Africa to the extent that the Europeans did in Canada. I'd say there are a lot of similarities, but what happened in Canada was far worse. Basically, France failed in their colonization of North Africa and were kicked out, but Europeans "succeeded" in totally subduing the local populations of North America and were able to colonize to a much larger extent.
Also, the BBCs reporting of this is baffling. I typically rely on them for international news, with the expectation that I'll have to accept that they will emphasize certain stories more than others, but the only stories they have up right now is Macron declaring it over and that Paris Fashion Week is going ahead.
Canada's existence is wholly predicated on the subjugation of foreign lands, that we didn't leave doesn't mean they were any less foreign and any less subjugated, there isn't some time limit where if you stay longer than 50 years they are no longer foreign or stolen
OK so we stand on foreign ground right now. Are you advocating that we abolish the entity of Canada and return the land to the Indigenous tribes? Canada is the colony, not the colonizer.
Where would we white people go? The Normans stole Britain from the Saxons/Celts, so we can't go there since that's stolen land too...
OK so we stand on foreign ground right now. Are you advocating that we abolish the entity of Canada and return the land to the Indigenous tribes? Canada is the colony, not the colonizer.
Where would we white people go? The Normans stole Britain from the Saxons/Celts, so we can't go there since that's stolen land too...
I'm not advocating anything, just admitting I live on stolen land, hell I can ride my bike 15 minutes down to where the people we stole the land from now have to live on the rez by the endowment lands, changing names doesn't change the theft, 'we' white folks weren't 'colonized' we did the colonizing, natives can claim to be colonized, we can't
OK so we stand on foreign ground right now. Are you advocating that we abolish the entity of Canada and return the land to the Indigenous tribes? Canada is the colony, not the colonizer.
Where would we white people go? The Normans stole Britain from the Saxons/Celts, so we can't go there since that's stolen land too...
I typically agree with your posts but you are so far off on this one. Why do you think being deemed a colony of the British absolves the history of subjugation over the entirety of North America?
I think we can all agree that colonialism has had negative consequences for indigenous people, but there are differences between France that was, and still is, a colonial power, and Canada that was created by a colonial power.
France was really effective at selling their culture to many of their colonies. They taught them the language, convinced them that France was an amazing place, then when it came to defending the empire, they made them citizens of France to convince them that France was their homeland as well.
Fast forward to today, it shouldn't be a surprise that generations of indoctrination, shared history, and a shared language, have created a situation where former subjects want to immigrate to France. The social pressures from it are what you would expect anywhere and isn't a problem with "France". If you took any country in the world and change the demographics radically over a generation, you are going to see some friction.
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I think we can all agree that colonialism has had negative consequences for indigenous people, but there are differences between France that was, and still is, a colonial power, and Canada that was created by a colonial power.
France was really effective at selling their culture to many of their colonies. They taught them the language, convinced them that France was an amazing place, then when it came to defending the empire, they made them citizens of France to convince them that France was their homeland as well.
Fast forward to today, it shouldn't be a surprise that generations of indoctrination, shared history, and a shared language, have created a situation where former subjects want to immigrate to France. The social pressures from it are what you would expect anywhere and isn't a problem with "France". If you took any country in the world and change the demographics radically over a generation, you are going to see some friction.
Yeah, to this day Les Quebecois still think they're actually French.
To which the Real French...in France, just shake their heads..."Nuh-uh. Mais non. C'est pas vrais."
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I typically agree with your posts but you are so far off on this one. Why do you think being deemed a colony of the British absolves the history of subjugation over the entirety of North America?
France is a colonial power. Canada isn’t. That’s all I’m arguing here.
What the British colonizers did to the indigenous of North America is terrible. What the newly established Canada did to the indigenous of North America is terrible.
France is a colonial power. Canada isn’t. That’s all I’m arguing here.
What the British colonizers did to the indigenous of North America is terrible. What the newly established Canada did to the indigenous of North America is terrible.
To say Canada is a colonizer is not correct.
Canada's confederation didn't end the process of colonization. It was just kind of formalizing colonization in perpetuity. You seem to want to say Canada isn’t a colonial power because it doesn't have colonies outside its own current borders, but recognize that Canada continued growing and absorbing new territories after confederation until becoming what is now the second largest country on Earth, and it continued the process of colonizing people inside those borders long after the borders had been expanded. The terrible things done by Canada to indigenous people that you're aware of was all part of the ongoing process of colonization. Kind of seems like a colonial power to me.
Is it maybe that you don't want to count what Canada did before sovereignty in 1982? It all kind of seems like splitting hairs to me, but Canada as a dominion was a undeniably a power that was actively furthering the colonial project and colonizing people.
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France is a colonial power. Canada isn’t. That’s all I’m arguing here.
What the British colonizers did to the indigenous of North America is terrible. What the newly established Canada did to the indigenous of North America is terrible.
To say Canada is a colonizer is not correct.
Isn’t Canada what it is today because it was colonized and the precursor to the country and its foundation was built upon subjugation and taking foreign lands? You said Canada did not do this but I argue the country would be a country without doing exactly that.
France is in this issue because of its culture and segregation within its borders. The more I see these issues the more I lean to the melting pot method that the US employed. All cultures should come together and continue to build off one another and create mixed culture and backgrounds rather than promoting segregation. Not that the US is without its issues but I argue that is more due to racial ones than cultural ones.
