32 Thoughts Podcast update on Calgary

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by playmaker

Bergeron, Kopitar and Toews are not generational lever talents. They never dominated the league in terms of points and assists etc. But they were elite 2 way centers and I dare to say we haven't had such a player since Joe Nieuwendyk.

They are all arguably 3 of the maybe 5 best centres the league has had for the last 15 years… I don’t understand how this negates my claim that Lindholm is a top line centre. When he has been doing so and producing in the role.

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

You can always get rid of players, it just depends on the price.

So you'll sell by paying the price? Kind of like sending a first rd pick to get rid of 1 year of Monahan's contract. How much would it cost to move out these contracts? Maybe it is time to be proactive instead of reactive.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

I don't think the Flames are in an ideal situation for a full rebuild. They have Huberdeau, Kadri and Markstrom signed long-term. You could move those contracts but you'd be selling low and the return would be really poor.

Two seasons ago many of the Flames players had career seasons. Last year, most of the key Flames players had the worst seasons of their careers. I suspect guys like Huberdeau, Kadri and Markstrom will regain at least some form.

So considering a rebuild is unlikely this year I think locking in Lindholm long-term would be prudent. If the team has another miserable season then they don't have a choice but to start selling and restocking picks and young players.

We can't rebuild now because we have too many veterans signed to long-term deals. So the answer is to sign another veteran to a long-term deal, if all goes south in a year, then rebuild? That would then just make it even more difficult, and you've needlessly made another long-term investment to a player who spends >half of the contract post-apex.

Now's precisely the time to rebuild. Actually, it was last offseason, but there won't be a 'better' time than now.

[TheIronMaiden]

We gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet

[bax]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

We gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet

Gotta crack a few Gregs to make a Tomelet

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

It's been said ... but signing Elias Lindholm isn't running the whole thing back.

That has to be stated.

If they let the Lindholm decision hold them ransom and bring back the other five (assuming Hanifin is gone) with brutal contracts (or expiring contracts) then I think we can safely say this isn't a GM issue, but an ownership issue.

Given Conroy's comments about getting younger I can't see them signing all of them. And if they bring say 5 back with expiring contracts then he's directly gone against his asset management comment.

We have to take some of these rumours with a grain of salt but the following comments concern me.

Flames are waiting on Lindholm before deciding on Toffoli, Zadorov, Tanev, etc.

Flames are not putting pressure on Lindholm to make decision by draft.

Conroy said he wouldn't repeat what happened to Treliving but after the draft the Flames lose a degree of control and risk going down the same path once again. He absolutely should be putting pressure on Lindholm to make up his mind because the draft is the week where most of the business gets done in the offseason in regards to trades and if they are going to decide on guys like Toffoli, Zadorov, and Tanev after the draft I just can't see this working out well for the Flames. They could do a fire sale at the draft but if one or two of these players get injured it's going to be a disaster.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Pickle Juice

What does volatile mean with regards to Vladar? I don’t know how to interpret that?

Same. That was highly confusing and a poor choice of words.

Friedman is such a dope. I wish we could get the same insider info from someone else.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I see the reaction fans have to the lack of deadline for Lindholm as very reasonable after we watched the Flames be completely paralyzed through draft weekend making zero moves, picking 3 players and no resolution on our high profile free agents. We do not want that to happen this year but the Hanifin trade that is likely to come and having picks in the first 2 rounds will make it less painful than last year. I have no doubt Conroy is working both sides and also recall Lindholm taking it right up to the draft the year we traded for him before he declined the Canes offer and was put into the trade mix.

Its not the same scenario as last year though, it's already different just in terms of the time left to their contract expiry.

This would be like the Flames not having serious discussions about Tkachuk and Gaudreau prior to the 2021 draft, not the 2022 draft.

The fact that Conroy has already highlighted the 7 pending UFAs in 2024, and we are having this discussion ahead of the 2023 draft shows this is already different.

Originally Posted by Pickle Juice

What does volatile mean with regards to Vladar? I don’t know how to interpret that?

Think it means that the goalie market is a bit unknown this year.

It's rumoured Gibson, Hart, and Hellebuyck could all be moved. Maybe a team has some interest in Vladar...but also have their eyes on one of the bigger name goalies too. They probably don't move on Vladar until they know for sure they aren't getting that other goalie. And then maybe one of those teams (Anaheim, Philly, Winnipeg) suddenly has interest in Vladar if they end up moving their goalie.

I get what he means by volatile...because it all really is dependent on how the overall goalie market shakes out.

[Username: Flames]

Signing Lindholm will be a mistake. Just like Kadri, Huberdeau and Markstrom's contracts.

Lindholm was a Selke finalist....when he played with Gaudreau and Tkachuck. I think Gaudreau made his linemates better....Lindholm was forgetable last season, but is still considered a first line centre. Now is the time to cash in...but I don't see the flames trading him. I see them overpaying another player in their 30s....

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Username: Flames

Signing Lindholm will be a mistake. Just like Kadri, Huberdeau and Markstrom's contracts.

Lindholm was a Selke finalist....when he played with Gaudreau and Tkachuck. I think Gaudreau made his linemates better....Lindholm was forgetable last season, but is still considered a first line centre. Now is the time to cash in...but I don't see the flames trading him. I see them overpaying another player in their 30s....

I don't think we have a true understanding of what he could do when given a proper chance with an effective Huberdeau.
But he still produced 20 goals and 60 points while being a strong 2 way player.
He is, arguably, the team's best overall player, so it's not a surprise they are trying to get him to sign.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Username: Flames

Signing Lindholm will be a mistake. Just like Kadri, Huberdeau and Markstrom's contracts.

Lindholm was a Selke finalist....when he played with Gaudreau and Tkachuck. I think Gaudreau made his linemates better....Lindholm was forgetable last season, but is still considered a first line centre. Now is the time to cash in...but I don't see the flames trading him. I see them overpaying another player in their 30s....

It probably will be a mistake, as most 8 year contracts for a 29 year old end up being. But this organization is not re-building, that edict comes from ownership.

So with that in mind then I get why you'd re-sign your first line center that has averaged 0.88 points per game and 0.38 goals per game while also being responsible defensively over his time with the Flames.

He's a really good player without Gaudreau and Tkachuk too. And if he's getting paid around $8.5M that is perfectly line, because the elite guys are making over $10M.

Overall though in order for this team to win a cup we are going to have to somehow really win a trade to add young a core piece (ie. Vegas with Eichel, St.Louis with O'Reilly). More and more I really want them to try to get Lafreniere from the Rangers.

[really?]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

There is no chance that Lundholm would sign before the Draft under any circumstances, because HE CANNOT SIGN A CONTRACT UNTIL 1 JULY.


Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

Didn’t realize that applied to players under contract who weren’t entering the temination of their deal. My bad.

[Username: Flames]

If only the owners had the vision to see that trading Hanifin and Lindholm now will make the team better for when the new arena is built. This team is not a championship team, and I think everyone agrees with that.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Username: Flames

Signing Lindholm will be a mistake. Just like Kadri, Huberdeau and Markstrom's contracts.

Lindholm was a Selke finalist....when he played with Gaudreau and Tkachuck. I think Gaudreau made his linemates better....Lindholm was forgetable last season, but is still considered a first line centre. Now is the time to cash in...but I don't see the flames trading him. I see them overpaying another player in their 30s....

Gaudreau has not scored 90pts in a season where he didn’t play almost all of his time with Lindholm. Dube and Toffoli just had career years with Lindholm. Monahan had a career year when Lindholm was moved to his right wing.

Lindholm didn’t score as many goals last year because of the lack of playmaker on his line. He became the play maker and it resulted in the second highest assist total of his career.

I think the Flames will absolutely trade him if they can’t work out a deal

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Username: Flames

If only the owners had the vision to see that trading Hanifin and Lindholm now will make the team better for when the new arena is built. This team is not a championship team, and I think everyone agrees with that.

They have no intention of tanking for 3-4 years. Fans will stop showing up in Calgary.

Get the core signed, get lucky on draft picks and the cap going up enough to dilute the big contracts. Anyone expecting anything else is deluding themselves.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I like Lindholm but another contract taking a player to 37 just feels wrong. This team will have too much money tied up in players over 30.

Yeah, unless Kadri somehow gets traded Lindholm needs to go while he's worth something

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by DJones

They have no intention of tanking for 3-4 years. Fans will stop showing up in Calgary.

Get the core signed, get lucky on draft picks and the cap going up enough to dilute the big contracts. Anyone expecting anything else is deluding themselves.

Fans started to stop showing up this year in a season where the team wasn't eliminated from the playoffs until game 81.

The team had 100% attendance from 2013-2016 if we want to call that the last 'rebuild' era.

I don't think fans will be as excited to pay 50% increased ticket/concession prices in a new building with a team that has drafted 16th overall for the last 4 years. And short of getting another Gaudreau with a late round pick, help isn't coming.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

We have to take some of these rumours with a grain of salt but the following comments concern me.





Conroy said he wouldn't repeat what happened to Treliving but after the draft the Flames lose a degree of control and risk going down the same path once again. He absolutely should be putting pressure on Lindholm to make up his mind because the draft is the week where most of the business gets done in the offseason in regards to trades and if they are going to decide on guys like Toffoli, Zadorov, and Tanev after the draft I just can't see this working out well for the Flames. They could do a fire sale at the draft but if one or two of these players get injured it's going to be a disaster.

Well he can't sign before the draft.

Conroy has to make a decision on Lindholm's intent and what he thinks the deal will come in at and go from there.

No other GM could do anything else.

Bad feeling? Then listen to offers. Want Lindholm and think he'll sign for something you're comfortable with you stand pat and move on to other assets.

The specifics though? I doubt anyone has that kind of information on what's going on inside the war room.

Insiders (outsiders) are just piecing together tidbits and making conclusions (and no I'm not mad at them or calling them fat!)

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I get what he means by volatile...because it all really is dependent on how the overall goalie market shakes out.

Fluid was the word he should of used. There's nothing unexpected about the situation here as several goalies (UFA and via trade) will be on the market and it's just a matter of the dominos falling.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Its not the same scenario as last year though, it's already different just in terms of the time left to their contract expiry.

This would be like the Flames not having serious discussions about Tkachuk and Gaudreau prior to the 2021 draft, not the 2022 draft.

The fact that Conroy has already highlighted the 7 pending UFAs in 2024, and we are having this discussion ahead of the 2023 draft shows this is already different.

I know the actual optics but I also understand how people felt last year so the “outrage” that the flames haven’t put a deadline on Lindholm at the draft this reaction makes sense even though the scenario is quite a bit different than last year. I also think a lot of fans are enamored with the 2023 draft and want immediate draft capital if they move off from Lindholm.