[News] 2023 Hart Top 3: McDavid, Pastrnak, Tkachuk

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Oiler fan for sure.

LOL Oiler fan because I said there is plenty to criticize the Oilers for?

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Spurs

There are so many legitimate things to criticize the Oilers and Edmonton for, the silly McDavid hate and flat out lies about him are always very cringeworthy. I don't think people have to cheer him on and pump him up but no need to make stuff up about him either.

I must be in hibernation and missed everything said about McDavid. What lies had been told about him?

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

I must be in hibernation and missed everything said about McDavid. What lies had been told about him?

The comments about him not being a leader, not being the best player in the league, about how bad his defense is, only relies on PP etc. Basically the comments that try to cut him down from being the clear cut best player in the world.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Spurs

The comments about him not being a leader, not being the best player in the league, about how bad his defense is, only relies on PP etc. Basically the comments that try to cut him down from being the clear cut best player in the world.

Oh, I thought there were personal attack on him.



-- him not being a leader


Well I don't know about that because I'm not in their dressing room.


-- not being the best player in the league


Well, this is debatable. One has to define "best player in the world". But, he is "best scorer" though, I give him that.


-- about how bad his defense is


TBH, this is not lie, this is truth.


-- only relies on PP


This is not lie either, look at last game alone, his team scored 3 goals all on PP and none even strength.


-- Basically the comments that try to cut him down from being the clear cut best player in the world


Again, one has to define "best player in the world". This is the thing, every one has different opinion on "best player".


I'll agree, he is the best scorer and the best diver and the best whiner. I think he beat out Gretzky on the diving and whining.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by Spurs

The comments about him not being a leader, not being the best player in the league, about how bad his defense is, only relies on PP etc. Basically the comments that try to cut him down from being the clear cut best player in the world.

I hate the oilers, i would never praise any oiler player, even if it's true, he sucks. lol

[dino7c]

McDavid is gonna win this with unanimous first place votes...maybe some odd homer pick but I doubt it

To suggest it's up in the air is laughable...and I will put my Oiler hating up against anyone

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

“All stories” = Ruzicka’s way after the fact story, and he wasn’t even around then.

There’s nothing else other than imagination. I don’t think Chucky takes more than a 5 year deal then. He got 4. He was itching for UFA all along.

You really need to show your work on your rumours. Everything seems to circle on CP. Theory becomes rumour becomes “reports”. There’s zero evidence of Tkachuk wanting a long term deal back then, and even less that they were even close.

At the press conference they said they did a bridge deal to keep the team together. Mike Gould, Ryan Pike, and other have tweeted about it. I'd think they have better sources than you who is choosing 5 years randomly from your imagination.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hackey

At the press conference they said they did a bridge deal to keep the team together. Mike Gould, Ryan Pike, and other have tweeted about it. I'd think they have better sources than you who is choosing 5 years randomly from your imagination.

Of course they did a bridge deal, and part of the reason was cap. The question whether he wanted more years and at what price. There was no indication at the time he wanted 8 or even 7. He did say in 2022 that he would have maybe done it but that’s backfilling. If he wanted an 8 year deal at 7 - highest in Flame history - it would have worked. Obviously that wasn’t going to happen.

Hint - getting rid of Frolik doesn’t buy you some sort of long term Tkachuk deal at say $9M.

[FireGilbert]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

One team improved every month of the season and is lighting up the playoffs. They also played in a killer division

One team looked lost all year and played in a joke of a division and conference

Honestly you just need to admit you were wrong and move on .

Yeah it is a really funny joke that out of the 6 remaining playoff teams half of them are from the Pacific.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Spurs

The comments about him not being a leader, not being the best player in the league, about how bad his defense is, only relies on PP etc. Basically the comments that try to cut him down from being the clear cut best player in the world.

You had a case with that one, but you just did the whole pot and kettle thing with that other BS. No need to lie to yourself and say he's not total sh** at all those other things, if you just stick with saying he's the best player.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Of course they did a bridge deal, and part of the reason was cap. The question whether he wanted more years and at what price. There was no indication at the time he wanted 8 or even 7. He did say in 2022 that he would have maybe done it but that’s backfilling. If he wanted an 8 year deal at 7 - highest in Flame history - it would have worked. Obviously that wasn’t going to happen.

Hint - getting rid of Frolik doesn’t buy you some sort of long term Tkachuk deal at say $9M.

Go listen to the press conference again. Tkachuk said himself that long term was the preferred option. "Wanting to be here as long as possible. We thought that was going to be the way to get it done." Then they talk about the bridge allowed no one to be moved. Tkachuk said this was brought up to him and he never even thought about it so clearly this was Trelivings idea. Then Treliving even says Matthew wants to be here, he wants to play his whole career here. He says the long term wasn't because Matthew didn't want it because they spent a lot time discussing long term but ultimately they wanted to keep the group together and this allowed it. The 3 year deal bit them in the ass hard. Having Gaudreau and Tkachuk as free agents in the same year also a big mistake.

[Jiri Hrdina]

This is probably going to be one of those topics that this site argues about for decades, much like the Savard/Gilbert debates instead of admitting we don't know and likely will never know what was true:
- Did Tkachuk really want to sign but couldn't because of cap
- Did BT want to sign him long-term but was blocked by ownership?
- Or did Tkachuk always intend to become a free agent at the earliest possible age.

We don't know so everyone is arguing from the position they believe to be true.

(And what Tkachuk said in a press conference doesn't amount to much. He wasn't going to go up there and say "Yeah well this takes me to free agency at the youngest possibl age which is my goal".)

[Hackey]

Well both sides told the same story so I'll go with that one until there is better evidence for something different. At the end of the day Brad had the leverage..It was his choice in the end to sign the 3 year deal.

[Hackey]

And Tkachuk wouldn't have said the short term deal was brought up to him if that wasn't true. Doubt he's just going to lie and say ya Brad brought up the short term deal when Brad was fighting for long term the entire time and Tkachuk wouldn't go for it.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It’s funny - both players and media focus on offence - you’d think the players would know better, but they routinely talk about McDavid in the same terms as the press. To a degree, points = salary to them so that’s what they notice.

Because other players know their job is to defend against him, yet he routinely lights them up like the christmas tree in Rockerfeller place.

It does not automatically make him the "best player in the world", but it certainly makes him the best offensive player.

And again when the PHWA votes as a collective, they are all going to go back over the season and strike a ballot for the guy who did his particular job better than anyone else did theirs. That's McDavid and it won't be anything but a landslide IMO. Maybe unanimous once again.

And just to add...its why i believe that the Ted Lindsay award is far more prestigious....because it comes from your peers. The guys who face you game in and game out. They know better than any.

[Erick Estrada]

McDavid is a no-brainer. No he's not a great all around player and his leadership ability is questionable but the point and goal production can't be disputed as it's a major achievement. The Oilers without him would not even compete for a playoff spot as their team totally revolves around him as he was a cheat code in the regular season.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

This is probably going to be one of those topics that this site argues about for decades, much like the Savard/Gilbert debates instead of admitting we don't know and likely will never know what was true:
- Did Tkachuk really want to sign but couldn't because of cap
- Did BT want to sign him long-term but was blocked by ownership?
- Or did Tkachuk always intend to become a free agent at the earliest possible age.

We don't know so everyone is arguing from the position they believe to be true.

(And what Tkachuk said in a press conference doesn't amount to much. He wasn't going to go up there and say "Yeah well this takes me to free agency at the youngest possibl age which is my goal".)

Brady has shown in Ottawa that it wasn't a Canadian thing, if the team had ponied up the cash I believe Matthew would've signed long term as well. When it was clear he wasn't getting long term what he wanted and/or Treliving wanted to bridge (save money for Frolik as stated) then Tkachuk got smart about it.

It's a major fumble for Trellving, the ownership here isn't perfect but they've shown they're willing to spend to cap. Signing Tkachuk wasn't a cap issue, we had the room if needed.

Valuable lesson, lock up your damn stars, overpay for them, and draft well so you're not overspending on depth.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Yes people will continue to argue for what they believe to be true
Again win don’t know

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

Brady has shown in Ottawa that it wasn't a Canadian thing, if the team had ponied up the cash I believe Matthew would've signed long term as well. When it was clear he wasn't getting long term what he wanted and/or Treliving wanted to bridge (save money for Frolik as stated) then Tkachuk got smart about it.

It's a major fumble for Trellving, the ownership here isn't perfect but they've shown they're willing to spend to cap. Signing Tkachuk wasn't a cap issue, we had the room if needed.

Valuable lesson, lock up your damn stars, overpay for them, and draft well so you're not overspending on depth.

I have a brother and we do things entirely differently and for different reasons. As Jiri says we believe what we believe. I tend to go off of actions and not after the fact statements.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Yes people will continue to argue for what they believe to be true
Again win don’t know

And GMBT seems like one of the few executives in the NHL that won’t kiss and tell. So we’ll have to wait 20 years to get the full story, Button style.