Are flames fans concerned about the team leaving if the arena situation falls through

[madmike]

I was a hardcore Expos fan back in the day. When the team folded I just started cheering for the Jays and don’t miss the Expos at all.

Fans really shouldn’t feel like they owe these franchises anything. They’re businesses run by owners who are out to take as much of your money as they can.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by madmike

I was a hardcore Expos fan back in the day. When the team folded I just started cheering for the Jays and don’t miss the Expos at all.

Fans really shouldn’t feel like they owe these franchises anything. They’re businesses run by owners who are out to take as much of your money as they can.

Where did you live? In Montreal? If not, it's not the same, really. And man, was Loria ever vilified (and rightly so).

No Flames in my own city, after 45 years, would be pretty bad.

[GFG#1]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Both sides pulling away from what was a $609M agreement ($321M Flames to City's $287.5M) over the extra $25.5M was stupid.

That was a 4% cost overrun at that time, and both sides should feel stupid for walking away from that over what was a 4% add on to costs.

I actually think it was a worse decision from the city IMO, my gut is next time around the Flames end up getting a better deal than what was on the table last time. Especially since CSEC was willing to fund any cost over run last time, but weren't willing to fund this $25.5M for infrastructure and climate (Solar panels).

I agree, my belief is the Mayor thought there was no way CSEC was going to pull out of the deal over the 4% and Murray called her on it. It will end up being a way worse deal for the city this time if it comes to fruition.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It wasn't a goalpost change. And yes, I believe Edwards thought construction costs might drop. Or he'd get a better split.

It was a goalpost change, the city even produced a video trying to defend there position as they said they had talked about the Solar panels with CSEC prior, but the video they produced was actually filmed after the original deal was signed. About 1 week later i believe. I think I read that in the Herald but not certain which outlet it was from. He might actually get a better deal but I don't believe it is actually going to cost him less then what he would have ended up paying originally. For example(I have no facts on this) this deal might end up being 40% CSEC, 50% City and 10% Provincial, but I believe his actual dollar amount will be more than what he would have paid through the original deal.

[Yeah_Baby]

Won't someone think of the unfortunate billionaire who lives in a swiss castle and isn't required to also pay for snow clearing, and other public infrastructure.

[jatylo]

I see the Flames playing ball for 5-10 years if not, do you really blame them if they looked elsewhere? While I'll miss one of the league's cheapest STH press level seats there is definitely a need for a new arena.

[marsplasticeraser]

At this point I think it’s become clear that our current owners are not competent professional sports owners.

We are a consistently underperforming sports franchise on the ice and lack any discernible strategy to become a champion.

We produce a terrible fan experience at games. They either don’t care or have no idea how to deliver a superior product off the ice.

The work done on Calgary Next (the most important project in the flames history) was comparable to a mediocre university project.

We should welcome the current ownership group taking the Flames to a new market, as we can then get new owner. Calgary is a major hockey market and it won’t be long before a new ownership group comes to Calgary. They will be spending ~$1 billion and won’t be able to tolerate the type of antics the current ownership group subjects us to.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Both sides pulling away from what was a $609M agreement ($321M Flames to City's $287.5M) over the extra $25.5M was stupid.

That was a 4% cost overrun at that time, and both sides should feel stupid for walking away from that over what was a 4% add on to costs.

I actually think it was a worse decision from the city IMO, my gut is next time around the Flames end up getting a better deal than what was on the table last time. Especially since CSEC was willing to fund any cost over run last time, but weren't willing to fund this $25.5M for infrastructure and climate (Solar panels).

FWIW the city's contribution was a lot more than 287.5; there is a lot of number fudging all around to make a snazzy infographic, and obviously the city wants to show a lower number if it can. That number excluded things like LAND, Saddledome demolition and/or the new building's eventual demolition, insurance, etc.

You can slice and dice the numbers all sorts of ways, and it's pretty tough to contextualize them anyways.

Originally Posted by GFG#1

I agree, my belief is the Mayor thought there was no way CSEC was going to pull out of the deal over the 4% and Murray called her on it. It will end up being a way worse deal for the city this time if it comes to fruition.



It was a goalpost change, the city even produced a video trying to defend there position as they said they had talked about the Solar panels with CSEC prior, but the video they produced was actually filmed after the original deal was signed. About 1 week later i believe. I think I read that in the Herald but not certain which outlet it was from. He might actually get a better deal but I don't believe it is actually going to cost him less then what he would have ended up paying originally. For example(I have no facts on this) this deal might end up being 40% CSEC, 50% City and 10% Provincial, but I believe his actual dollar amount will be more than what he would have paid through the original deal.

Why would they make a video before the deal was approved? You think the city snuck it in there 1 week after the deal, and it just wasn't an issue for CSEC for like 18 months until suddenly it was?

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

If the arena situation falls through then I want them to leave, so another, more competent and cooperative ownership group can bring a team here and actually get it done.

This is a great market for the NHL. If Murray and Co want to dawdle and penny pinch because they let the project proposal collect dust until materials became more expensive then they're welcome to walk.

We know Calgary is a great & appealing market for the right people.

[Scornfire]

Originally Posted by GFG#1

(I have no facts on this)

clearly

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GFG#1

I agree, my belief is the Mayor thought there was no way CSEC was going to pull out of the deal over the 4% and Murray called her on it. It will end up being a way worse deal for the city this time if it comes to fruition.



It was a goalpost change, the city even produced a video trying to defend there position as they said they had talked about the Solar panels with CSEC prior, but the video they produced was actually filmed after the original deal was signed. About 1 week later i believe. I think I read that in the Herald but not certain which outlet it was from. He might actually get a better deal but I don't believe it is actually going to cost him less then what he would have ended up paying originally. For example(I have no facts on this) this deal might end up being 40% CSEC, 50% City and 10% Provincial, but I believe his actual dollar amount will be more than what he would have paid through the original deal.

Dude, go back to the actual arena construction thread. People actually involved who have the actual info commented. and you are wrong. The contract allowed for such requirements.

[dino7c]

Is this thread based on any real news or just the sky is falling stuff of late?

I thought the arena deal was on track.....again lol

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Is this thread based on any real news or just the sky is falling stuff of late?

I thought the arena deal was on track.....again lol

no, yes, and yes

[Svartsengi]

I was a season ticket holder for ten years and then refused to renew seven years ago and haven’t been back to the Saddledome to watch a game since. I could afford to have tickets but it wasn’t worth it as I came to the conclusion then and still believe ownership will never commit to a proper rebuild and stay mediocre forever.

Murray can say he will move the team to Switzerland for all that it matters. I will not be coerced into giving him any more money. Build an arena that is best for the city not Murray. Calgary has missed out on far too many concerts because of the Saddledome.

[flambers]

Not concerned at all, I believe the deal won't fall through.

I would think the arena deal could be done this summer is my guess

[Johnny Makarov]

The flames can leave. The NHL is a dying boring sport.
They can build their own arena. I just want a better venue for concerts.

[FlamesAddiction]

If a new arena isn't built by the time the Saddledome's life is up, then the Flames will leave. That should be pretty obvious to anyone.

Your level of concern should be equal to your level of pessimism or optimism that a new arena breaks ground within the next 4 years.

Whether or not the current Flames owners want to keep owning a team in Calgary is another issue. If they are purposely sabotaging arena agreements with the City as some people suggest, that is a really bad sign. That's something that happens if owners want out but want to scapegoat someone else. If you think the owners are seriously trying to get something done, that is a really good sign because no one builds an arena if they don't intend to stay. I have no idea if either side is acting in bad faith, but it doesn't really matter.

People can point to the Flames being a valuable franchise in the Calgary market, but there are places it could be even more valuable especially if those places have brand new facilities that will give a sweetheart deal to a tenant. For the NHL as a whole, I don't think they care if Calgary has a team or not and I doubt if you see the work put in the ensure they stay, like they did in Arizona and Pittsburgh.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

The flames can leave. The NHL is a dying boring sport.
They can build their own arena. I just want a better venue for concerts.

And who is going to build this venue?

I am amused about someone posting here about hockey being a dying sport, especially someone who frequently posts in GTs.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

The flames can leave. The NHL is a dying boring sport.
They can build their own arena. I just want a better venue for concerts.

If the Flames leave, how will you get them to pay half the price of a better venue for concerts? The city's cost to build and run an often empty concert venue will be significantly higher than half the cost of building and running an arena that has guaranteed bookings 50+ nights/year.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

FWIW the city's contribution was a lot more than 287.5; there is a lot of number fudging all around to make a snazzy infographic, and obviously the city wants to show a lower number if it can. That number excluded things like LAND, Saddledome demolition and/or the new building's eventual demolition, insurance, etc.

You can slice and dice the numbers all sorts of ways, and it's pretty tough to contextualize them anyways.

That makes it even worse IMO.

To back away from what is actually probably closer to a $1B deal to your point, over $25.5M is even more ridiculous from both sides.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

And who is going to build this venue?

I am amused about someone posting here about hockey being a dying sport, especially someone who frequently posts in GTs.

You really have to stop obsessing about me. It's not healthy. lol I have barely posted in the GTs for the past 3 months. Unlike you who post like 200 times a day! lol

The Panthers-Bruins game was the first full NHL game I have watched since then and it was pretty lackluster.