[Trade] Hathaway and Orlov (75% ret) to Boston for Smith, 23 1st, 25 2nd, 24 3rd

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Lol Pagnotta got it so completely wrong

Not the first time and won’t be the last

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Hard not to have a soft spot for Hathaway.

Time flies, feels like yesterday he signed that contract with Washington

[Phaneuf_Phan]

Boston cannot be complete without Lucic 😆

[Strange Brew]

Seems like a solid trade for the Caps. Orlov plays over 22 minutes a night, he is the main piece. Adding Hathaway seems like a nice add though for Boston.

Pretty good haul for two players who weren't making much money. Seems they were outperforming their contracts big time.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Unless this is a draft like 2003 or 2015 and it does seem like it was being hyped like that type of draft.

Ok so lets look at the 2015 NHL draft to see if the end of the first and early second was actually better.

2015:
27. Noah Juulsen: 58 GPs
28. Jacob Larsson: 172 GPs
29. Anthony Beauvillier: 465 GPs
30. Gabriel Carlsson: 75 GPs
31. Nick Merkley: 41 GPs
32. Jeremy Roy: 0 GPs
33. Christian Fischer: 376 GPs
TOTAL: 1187 GPs

2014:
27: Nik Goldobin: 125 GPs
28: Josh Ho Sang: 53 GPs
29: Adrian Kempe: 448 GPs
30: John Quenville: 42 GPs
31: Brendan Lemiuex: 257 GPs
32: Jayce Hawryluk: 98 GPs
33: Ivan Barbashev: 408 Gps
TOTAL: 1431 GPs (with one extra year to work with)

2016:
27: Brett Howden: 255 GPs
28: Lucas Johansen: 3 GPs
29: Trent Frederic: 172 GPs
30: Sam Steel: 250 GPs
31: Egor Korshkov: 1 GP
32: Tyler Benson: 38 GPs
33: Rasmus Asplund: 164 GPs
TOTAL: 883 GPs (with 1 less year to work with)


It's not that much different.
Even the 2003 draft, rightly held up as an amazing draft, from 27-33 has Brian Boyle who had a long but not really notable career. But Cory Perry is sitting there at 28 and Loui Eriksson at 33. Perry makes that draft at that spot. The rest - same 'ol same 'ol.

Drafts are largely defined by what is available at the top, and how deep you can go before it normalizes.
The key is to go beyond the hype. Because the hype ain't accurate.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Ok so lets look at the 2015 NHL draft to see if the end of the first and early second was actually better.

2015:
27. Noah Juulsen: 58 GPs
28. Jacob Larsson: 172 GPs
29. Anthony Beauvillier: 465 GPs
30. Gabriel Carlsson: 75 GPs
31. Nick Merkley: 41 GPs
32. Jeremy Roy: 0 GPs
33. Christian Fischer: 376 GPs
TOTAL: 1187 GPs

2014:
27: Nik Goldobin: 125 GPs
28: Josh Ho Sang: 53 GPs
29: Adrian Kempe: 448 GPs
30: John Quenville: 42 GPs
31: Brendan Lemiuex: 257 GPs
32: Jayce Hawryluk: 98 GPs
33: Ivan Barbashev: 408 Gps
TOTAL: 1431 GPs (with one extra year to work with)

2016:
27: Brett Howden: 255 GPs
28: Lucas Johansen: 3 GPs
29: Trent Frederic: 172 GPs
30: Sam Steel: 250 GPs
31: Egor Korshkov: 1 GP
32: Tyler Benson: 38 GPs
33: Rasmus Asplund: 164 GPs
TOTAL: 883 GPs (with 1 less year to work with)


It's not that much different.
Even the 2003 draft, rightly held up as an amazing draft, from 27-33 has Brian Boyle who had a long but not really notable career. But Cory Perry is sitting there at 28 and Loui Eriksson at 33. Perry makes that draft at that spot. The rest - same 'ol same 'ol.

Drafts are largely defined by what is available at the top, and how deep you can go before it normalizes.
The key is to go beyond the hype. Because the hype ain't accurate.

Not all the teams trading 1sts will win in the first round. It is possible that these picks are in the 17 to 24 range. Strong drafts seem to have more guys in this range.

But if you go through the 2012 to 2016 drafts, all of them have 1 star taken in the 18-26 overall range.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Bongsong

Why is every thread so doom and gloom all the time

It's always the usual suspects too. Nothing better to do but complain.

[Badgers Nose]

nvm

[dustygoon]

What the actual hell...

Seravalli saying the wild got that 5th pick for spending cash of $88k. And got the 4th pick in the O'Reilly deal for $74k of cash.

Who gives a crap about cap space right now? We don't need it. I'm a huge supporter of Treliving, but this team needs those picks more than cap space unless he has something cooking that has longer term implications.

[Kipper_3434]

Nice, hope we see Hathaway at the dome this playoffs. All these doom and gloom posts, about the Flames needing to sell, could make for some tasty crow this spring.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Not all the teams trading 1sts will win in the first round. It is possible that these picks are in the 17 to 24 range. Strong drafts seem to have more guys in this range.

But if you go through the 2012 to 2016 drafts, all of them have 1 star taken in the 18-26 overall range.

Speaking specifically about the Bruins pick, if I understand the rules that means the earliest i can be is 24th.
I'm not discounting the value of these picks. The points being made were:
- No one said 2023 picks weren't going to move, just that if they did, they are likely to be late ones. This remains true
- And that when you get later into this draft, I don't believe it to be materially stronger than most other drafts.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Ok so lets look at the 2015 NHL draft to see if the end of the first and early second was actually better.

2015:
27. Noah Juulsen: 58 GPs
28. Jacob Larsson: 172 GPs
29. Anthony Beauvillier: 465 GPs
30. Gabriel Carlsson: 75 GPs
31. Nick Merkley: 41 GPs
32. Jeremy Roy: 0 GPs
33. Christian Fischer: 376 GPs
TOTAL: 1187 GPs

2014:
27: Nik Goldobin: 125 GPs
28: Josh Ho Sang: 53 GPs
29: Adrian Kempe: 448 GPs
30: John Quenville: 42 GPs
31: Brendan Lemiuex: 257 GPs
32: Jayce Hawryluk: 98 GPs
33: Ivan Barbashev: 408 Gps
TOTAL: 1431 GPs (with one extra year to work with)

2016:
27: Brett Howden: 255 GPs
28: Lucas Johansen: 3 GPs
29: Trent Frederic: 172 GPs
30: Sam Steel: 250 GPs
31: Egor Korshkov: 1 GP
32: Tyler Benson: 38 GPs
33: Rasmus Asplund: 164 GPs
TOTAL: 883 GPs (with 1 less year to work with)


It's not that much different.
Even the 2003 draft, rightly held up as an amazing draft, from 27-33 has Brian Boyle who had a long but not really notable career. But Cory Perry is sitting there at 28 and Loui Eriksson at 33. Perry makes that draft at that spot. The rest - same 'ol same 'ol.

Drafts are largely defined by what is available at the top, and how deep you can go before it normalizes.
The key is to go beyond the hype. Because the hype ain't accurate.

Aho was 35th and Carlo was 37th in the 2015 draft. High end players that were picked in the early 2nd.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Aho was 35th and Carlo was 37th in the 2015 draft. High end players that were picked in the early 2nd.

OK and in 2016 Alex Debrincat was picked 39 and Jordan Kyrou 35.

My point isn't that there aren't good players are available in those areas. There are. Every year.

But that part of the draft is not typically what makes a draft good or bad, particularly heading into the draft.


No one, who is paying attention to the prospects, thinks that the 2023 NHL draft is a killer one because of who is projected to go 27-38. It's because of the quality prospects at the top.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

OK and in 2016 Alex Debrincat was picked 39 and Jordan Kyrou 35.

My point isn't that there aren't good players are available in those areas. There are. Every year.

But that part of the draft is not typically what makes a draft good or bad, particularly heading into the draft.


No one, who is paying attention to the prospects, thinks that the 2023 NHL draft is a killer one because of who is projected to go 27-38. It's because of the quality prospects at the top.

Agreed but maybe the trick is having as many bullets in the gun as possible if the accuracy isn't great.

Not saying that they are going to select a star player but I do think that increasing the number of draft selections gives that option as well as maneuverability at the draft for trading up as it seems like picks are the most valuable on draft day

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Agreed but maybe the trick is having as many bullets in the gun as possible if the accuracy isn't great.

Not saying that they are going to select a star player but I do think that increasing the number of draft selections gives that option as well as maneuverability at the draft for trading up as it seems like picks are the most valuable on draft day

... and even moreso when the current scouting staff show they hit the target a lot with bad bullets (lower round picks).

[savardandjokinen]

Originally Posted by Burn13

Remeber all the talk on this board to pick up Orlov off waivers a few years ago. How he blossomed to a top 4D.

When was Orlov on waivers?

[GioforPM]

It's fine to say "get lots of picks". But IMO a whole lot of people hear "first round pick" and think "stud player" without considering where the pick is.

[Flames1217]

Originally Posted by savardandjokinen

When was Orlov on waivers?

2013 or 2014.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It's fine to say "get lots of picks". But IMO a whole lot of people hear "first round pick" and think "stud player" without considering where the pick is.

Exactly.

Some posters here think the Flames are foolish for not selling off anything that isn’t bolted down past 2024 (Lindholm, Hanifin, Tanev, Toffoli, Zadorov), for 1st first round picks. One guy seems to think we should be able to get 7 first round picks for this group of players.

First of all, if they were to move some of these guys for picks they would be much wiser to do it at the draft, that way, you might actually get a team to give up a mid-first opposed to a late. Secondly, and I e raised this before, there are only so many first round picks available at any given time. Teams who might be willing to give up a first today, might not want to in June. For 2/3rds of the league, they’re not giving up their first short of something too good to pass up, or they wouldn’t trade it under any circumstances at all.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Flames1217

2013 or 2014.

I don't think so. His transaction history on puckpedia doesn't show any waiver, and it shows all his recalls and reassignments.