Confirmed: Flames to relocate AHL affilate for 2022-23 season

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

i have to admit that i am stunned by some of the attendance figures some folks in this thread have projected.

my personal thought is that i'd spend my money on the flames first, then the hitmen then the heat (for me would be a distant third). Even if my son was still playing minor hockey my order would still in that way.

Have you ever watched AHL hockey in person?

Comparing it to the WHL, it is literally men vs. boys. The strength speed and power is an order of magnitude higher.

I get that junior hockey can be more exciting at time because more mistakes are made. After living in a city with AHL hockey for 2 years then coming back to watch junior, it made the WHL noticeably look like a joke and a scam.

They effectively charge Stampeders ticket pricing to watch Calgary Colts or Dinos level talent.

[D as in David]

Just locate somewhere they have slo-mo replay capability for game highlight packages.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Not particularly close to Calgary but if you are going to subsidize everyone's travel - I always thought Thunder Bay would be a slam dunk AHL market. No junior team will ever play there because of the distance from everywhere else in Canada. They draw like 1500 fans for university hockey which is probably 3 times what anyone else draws just because the market is dying for hockey.

Thunder Bay was on the radar for the Jets until the city folded on building an adequate venue.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by playmaker

As someone who lives in Europe I may be of course wrong, but looking at the map wouldn't Spokane be an ideal destination for the Heat? Not sure about direct flights to Calgary though.

Spokane has a WHL team and I don't think they'd want to put an AHL team in an existing WHL market. The same goes for places like Saskatoon and Regina.

I think the basic fact is having the team in California made sense when it was just a small group of California-based teams who could all easily travel to play each other. Now that there are teams in Abbotsford, Colorado, Tucson, and Henderson, there's a lot more travel anyway, so that advantage is diminished.

Then, once the decision to move the team is made, why just make the team "closer" to Calgary and not go all the way and put them in Calgary?

The only real disadvantage of putting the team in Calgary is they'll likely have poor attendance and won't be the biggest game in town, but those aren't really important as long as the parent team understands that.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by getbak

Spokane has a WHL team and I don't think they'd want to put an AHL team in an existing WHL market. The same goes for places like Saskatoon and Regina.

I think the basic fact is having the team in California made sense when it was just a small group of California-based teams who could all easily travel to play each other. Now that there are teams in Abbotsford, Colorado, Tucson, and Henderson, there's a lot more travel anyway, so that advantage is diminished.

Then, once the decision to move the team is made, why just make the team "closer" to Calgary and not go all the way and put them in Calgary?

The only real disadvantage of putting the team in Calgary is they'll likely have poor attendance and won't be the biggest game in town, but those aren't really important as long as the parent team understands that.

It may also be relative. The attendance may be down here in saturation of the market, but it may be better than Stockton overall.

Also, this Canadian franchise is paying American currency for the team down there, including travel costs for management and staff to visit and stay down there. There may be other cost savings that the team looks at to off-set the loss of ticket revenue.

[Julio]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Saskatoon does have a new building...

They have a newer secondary building (Merlis Beltcher Place) on the U of S campus. It's a big Max Bell, except nicer, but it is also pretty locked in for use by the campus community and the greater hockey community in Saskatoon, which was one of the conditions the city of Saskatoon put on putting finding in for it.
The main arena (Sask Tel Centre) is almost as old as the Dome.

[Julio]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Yeah, it was always a matter of time with Stockton. I was surprised they went back there after the pandemic season.

The Hitmen typically draw around 7000. An AHL would likely cut into that substantially.

Maybe the Hitmen move to the Tsuut'ina Sportsplex? That's only 2000 seats though.

The Hitmen draw nowhere close to 7000 on any sort of regular basis. They could have easily had half of their games in Winsport/Seven Chiefs this year.


There is no real medium sized facility that is replacing the Corral in Calgary. Winsport probably comes closest, but is much smaller, and far from the city core, as is Seven Chiefs. If there was 5000 seats in the arena (as opposed to the field house) on the reserve, I can see putting a team there, where it could be showcased and differentiated from the other CSEC teams.
But I think in the medium to long term, it would probably be better to put the team in one of the western ECHL markets, if there is availability. Bring back the Salt Lake Golden Eagles!

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Boise is a bit of an outpost as far as the ECHL goes... the league is trending back eastward. Decent attendance, though not the biggest barn.

I imagine the Flames looked at Idaho, Colorado Springs and Salt Lake as options and feel they're better off with a backyard farm.

Boise is the Stars ECHL affiliate...if the goal were to make the league maps make sense, then they should swap the Texas Stars (who are currently an AHL outpost being in Austin) to the ECHL where there are 4 other teams in Texas/OK/Kansas. There are actually 2 direct flights per day from Boise to Dallas.

Then Calgary takes the Utah Grizzlies to the AHL, leaving the Avs without an ECHL affiliate, though they could do Colorado Springs or Omaha or OKC which would fit better in the ECHL map.


The most ideal solution though is for CGY to take the Palm Springs/Coachella team and for the Kraken to go with Boise.

[Krynn]

Originally Posted by CMPunk

I think it will be too much for the Calgary area. Attendance will be Hitmen level or less. If they last five years here I'd be shocked.

Exactly from my understanding when they moved from St Jon's they where really thinking about moving here but with The Hitmen and Roughnecks they decided not to because of what you just said to much for the area .if one of the teams wasn't here we would have the farm team here.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Julio

The Hitmen draw nowhere close to 7000 on any sort of regular basis. They could have easily had half of their games in Winsport/Seven Chiefs this year.


There is no real medium sized facility that is replacing the Corral in Calgary. Winsport probably comes closest, but is much smaller, and far from the city core, as is Seven Chiefs. If there was 5000 seats in the arena (as opposed to the field house) on the reserve, I can see putting a team there, where it could be showcased and differentiated from the other CSEC teams.
But I think in the medium to long term, it would probably be better to put the team in one of the western ECHL markets, if there is availability. Bring back the Salt Lake Golden Eagles!

Once the Ring Road is finished Winsport will be within 20-30 minutes from over 1/2 the City. It isn’t on a transit line, but travel time will be comparable to the Dome for most, and traffic isn’t really ever a concern for Hitmen games.

[Reggie Dunlop]

The Heat will also take 34+ bookings at the Saddledome, which may reduce concert availability. Contingent of course, on what happens with the Hitmen.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

The Heat will also take 34+ bookings at the Saddledome, which may reduce concert availability. Contingent of course, on what happens with the Hitmen.

Could definitely see the Heat take over residency @ the dome and move the hitmen full time to Seven Chiefs/Winsport.

Heat season tickets would be of more value than Hitmen sadly, I donate 85% of my Hitmen season tickets to Kids Upfront Charity because I can't even give them away, but do it to support the team + charity.

[Scimitar]

Originally Posted by LIP MAN

Okotoks Heat

Airdrie Heat



My personal fave would be Balzac Heat

I wish they could convert that Chinese mall into an arena.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Krynn

Exactly from my understanding when they moved from St Jon's they where really thinking about moving here but with The Hitmen and Roughnecks they decided not to because of what you just said to much for the area .if one of the teams wasn't here we would have the farm team here.

The Roughnecks weren’t owned by the Flames until 2011 and the team left Saint John’s in 2003, so I doubt it was much of a consideration.

To me I think it comes down to the balance sheet.

They pay the Hitmen nothing, the Heat are paid.

Obviously the profit margin on a Hitmen game would be higher, and an additional team would cut into that profit.

The question is, would that potential loss in revenue be more or less than what than the savings of moving a team closer (travel, recalls, personnel etc.) and enhanced revue compared to a distant market.

Compared to running a separate show elsewhere, I would think the ability to use the in-house CSEC marketing machine, coaches, etc. is well worth their while, but that is only my speculation.

When Burke ran the Leafs he talked about one of the benefits of having the Marlies in the same city was recruiting free agents, especially from Europe. If a guy is going to relocate his family across the ocean it would be comforting and attractive to know that if he gets sent to the minors he sleeps in the same bed. This was one of the reasons the Flames couldn’t keep Andrei Taratukhin in North America.

Additionally, having the AHL/WHL in the same market is also attractive for all middling replacement level players looking for NHL work.

Each player is essentially their own brand or corporation.

Calgary is a centerpiece on the WHL scouting loops. If middling player is doing well for the Heat, he’s going to get more looks from scouts in town for WHL games who will also be checking out AHL games, than he would playing in the hinterlands where people will be watching games on TV or live only on specific scouting trips.

Agents know this as well. It’s one of the reasons why players want to play for the Marlies. Sam Gagner knew this when he requested to play for them, and he came back into the league.

Yes, Toronto is much more of a showcase location than Calgary for a player.

But Calgary, or even Winnipeg, is also much more of a showcase location than somewhere like Stockton.

[Strange Brew]

IMO this really comes down to hockey as a sport still just not gaining much traction with US fans particularly anywhere in the south.

In Canada all major markets have an NHL team and secondary markets all have a major junior team.

In the US you have 94 urban areas with a population greater than 400K (as of 2010) and only 22 or so with NHL teams. But AHL still has a hard time teams still has a hard time finding enough stable, successful homes for its teams.

[Ruttiger]

Originally Posted by agulati

I can definitely see myself going to a few games if they move to the city. Could they be in Lethbridge or Red Deer? It does say Calgary area, and not specifically Calgary.

You'd have to think they'd want closer access to an international airport.

[foshizzle11]

I never go to WHL games living in Calgary, but I would absolutely go to the AHL games to watch our baby flames. I just don't have ties to the WHL nor do I want to spend even more time supporting another franchise. But I see the Flames AHL team as just like the junior varsity team at a high school, makes sense to have it all in one place IMO. I think it is a good model for success, especially keeping the players under the Flames wing/close to staff and more exposure, relationship building, etc.

[Erick Estrada]

Why not Northland Coliseum in Edmonton? It's unused and shouldn't Edmonton get treated to a real professional hockey team for once?

[Iceman90]

Originally Posted by agulati

I can definitely see myself going to a few games if they move to the city. Could they be in Lethbridge or Red Deer? It does say Calgary area, and not specifically Calgary.

That would kill the WHL team in either city, and as they also own a WHL team I can't see that happening. Nor do I see an alternative market to move one of the WHL teams to. It feels like every market of the appropriate size for WHL has a WHL team.

[Reggie Dunlop]

I do not see the CSEC squeezing out a WHL partner. The current teams are relatively stable in their respective markets.

The WHL is also headquartered in Calgary. The Hitmen aren't going to relocate to another market either.