[PGT] Lightning 4 Flames 1

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by browntrout

Tampa got lucky and won a lottery and also got Victor Hedman second overall. Calgary has not yet been gifted that silver spoon.They have drafted well, I will give them that, but we're not having this conversation about they're two Stanley cups if they don't suck so bad those two years, oh I forget they also drafted Lecavalier first overall as well. Perhaps we should also go 10 million over the cap or whatever it was too, that might help our playoff success as well

Screw Tampa Bay and the horse they rode on

They are so lucky that they got Kucherov and Point in the 2nd round, palat in the 7th and their number 1 goalie Vishn instead of the best player of the draft Jankowski

That’s all luck my friend lmfao

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Maybe we should add two other $8 million players and somehow get around the cap issues we'd be an elite team

Somehow with 0 cap space they dropped Kucherov into that game.

Reality is having contracts like Monahans, Loooch and backlunds are the difference. Those 3 contracts are just to much money for not enough skill

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Number 39

I’m happy to be proven wrong but I don’t see an NHLer in Philips.

I don't either, but I am open to giving him a shot to see if he can provide some spark to a line.

The problem here is Sutter has carved a hole in the offense by playing Monahan where he is. Yes, Sean Monahan has lost a step because of injury, but the guy still makes some really heady plays and finds open ice his line mates just can't exploit. They need to take a chance on something to lighting another line up. My solution would be call up Phillips and Pelletier and see of they can contribute.

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk
Dube-Backlund-Mangiapane
Pelletier-Monahan-Coleman
Lucic-Richardson-Phillips/Lewis

I think because of Monahan's skating challenges you have to play him with Coleman, who has the speed and defensive acumen to cover. We're still a proven body off from having a balanced team, but this is the best option without making a trade.

[Moneyhands23]

At this point with the coach continually calling out the lack of skill on the team you would think a call up of one of our skilled young guys would be in the cards. I wonder why BT hasn't given any of the prospects a chance.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

At this point with the coach continually calling out the lack of skill on the team you would think a call up of one of our skilled young guys would be in the cards. I wonder why BT hasn't given any of the prospects a chance.

Too late, Sutter should have said that earlier. I believe some guy with a broken neck in Nevada may have helped

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Pittsburgh got lucky with Crosby, Malkin, and Fleury.
Chicago got lucky with Kane, and Toews.
LA got lucky with Doughty, and Kopitar.

It’s not really luck. It’s getting the opportunity to build a team on a sound foundation by choosing not to overpay middling free agents to stay just competitive enough to barely miss the playoffs/be first round fodder, and choosing not to leverage the future by trading away prospects and picks for minor short term gains.

Championship teams are built on the backs of top draft picks. Pick at the top of the draft (and don’t screw it up), and then find good players late in draft, sign smart contracts, hire a great coach, make good trades and generally be one of the better managed teams in the league - you have to do all of these things to build a Championship quality team - and the Flames haven’t done it, so they aren’t of Chanpionship quality.

Two of the three teams you mention were complete garbage for a long time.

Chicago - missed the playoffs 9 times in 10 seasons (and went out in 5 games in the 1st round that one time)

LA - missed the playoffs 6 seasons in a row

There was no plan to be terrible for that long. That like saying Edmonton had a plan to suck for 15 years in a row and then land McDavid. They just sucked forever and by law of averages they landed a bunch of good players with high picks.

Pittsburgh was lucky because they landed Crosby in a lottery after a cancelled season. There wasn't a plan for that.

[PeteMoss]

In addition to one more forward, I think the Flames need one defenseman. You can't feel comfortable when the current 3rd pair gets out there against guys like Kucherov, etc.

[Strange Brew]

We supposedly have about 9 defensemen, including guys like Valimaki, Mackey, Stone. We should have a bottom pair out of all that.

Need talent up front IMO.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Pittsburgh got lucky with Crosby, Malkin, and Fleury.
Chicago got lucky with Kane, and Toews.
LA got lucky with Doughty, and Kopitar.

It’s not really luck. It’s getting the opportunity to build a team on a sound foundation by choosing not to overpay middling free agents to stay just competitive enough to barely miss the playoffs/be first round fodder, and choosing not to leverage the future by trading away prospects and picks for minor short term gains.

Championship teams are built on the backs of top draft picks. Pick at the top of the draft (and don’t screw it up), and then find good players late in draft, sign smart contracts, hire a great coach, make good trades and generally be one of the better managed teams in the league - you have to do all of these things to build a Championship quality team - and the Flames haven’t done it, so they aren’t of Chanpionship quality.

Really look at the comparable markets to Calgary who have tried what you are suggesting. Buffalo and Edmonton who have both been twisting in the wind and absolute garbage for over a decade doing what you are advocating.

Sure Tampa has Stamkos and Hedmen but Stamkos is no where near as relevant to their success than 2nd rounder Kucherov and 3rd rounder Point or late 1st rounder Vaslsilesky. Hedmen absolutely is their pillar on the back end but the key components of that team were not picked high in the draft. Username flubbed on 3 top 10 picks in 4 years post Stamkos/Hedmen in Connolly, Koekkoek, Drouin.

Unless Calgary somehow gets Bedard we are far more likely to have a Edmonton/Buffalo experience than we are Chicago/LA.

LA also only had Doughty that was a top pick. Kopitar, Brown, Richards, Carter, Quick etc all later picks in the first round or beyond

[Wastedyouth]

Oof. Well that was a reality check eh?

Oh well, onto the next game it should be an easier opponent.... waitaminute...

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Really look at the comparable markets to Calgary who have tried what you are suggesting. Buffalo and Edmonton who have both been twisting in the wind and absolute garbage for over a decade doing what you are advocating.

Sure Tampa has Stamkos and Hedmen but Stamkos is no where near as relevant to their success than 2nd rounder Kucherov and 3rd rounder Point or late 1st rounder Vaslsilesky. Hedmen absolutely is their pillar on the back end but the key components of that team were not picked high in the draft. Username flubbed on 3 top 10 picks in 4 years post Stamkos/Hedmen in Connolly, Koekkoek, Drouin.

Unless Calgary somehow gets Bedard we are far more likely to have a Edmonton/Buffalo experience than we are Chicago/LA.

LA also only had Doughty that was a top pick. Kopitar, Brown, Richards, Carter, Quick etc all later picks in the first round or beyond

Plus the draft lottery rules have changed dramatically and we can no longer sign our young superstars to lifetime deals. Crosby won 2 cups on an illegal deal. Kings and Hawks had a few of those contracts too.

1st contracts after ELC for star players has changed too.

Not sure when we stop using teams who drafted high picks as the example when a few of those picks were 15+ years ago?

[psyang]

Biggest sign that our team is playing well and living up to expectations: Over 12 hours after a second consecutive loss by 3+ goals, the PGT is still under 100 posts. Refreshing!

[talladega.25]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I'll pretty much just echo other people's thoughts. These Florida games show how we measure up against the best of the league. Calgary is good, but we're not competitive against the best teams

Next few weeks will be interesting to see if Treliving targets something at the trade deadline

Thats the East too. Id like to see how we match-up against St.Louis, Colorado, and Minnesota too! Vegas and Edmonton already seem to have our number.

Calgary needs more speed and skill in the bottom 6 and on the 3rd pair. I am curious to see what they do. With all of the contracts expiring and potential change, I would add and deal with the change in the off-season. A Hertl, Brown type players are needed up front (Both-not one) and they need to call up Pelletier. Id guess he'd be effective as guys like Monahan/Dube to say the least.

We should also look to add a mobile D man that can play on the 3rd pair, where he can play a similar style to Kylington. I am not sure if Valimaki or Mackey have it in them for this year.

I actually love our Goaltending. (Markstrom, Vladar, Wolf, and Werner are solid depth)

[calumniate]

Man, Tampa had a knack for getting shots in the slot. Either our D have to cover up the slot more, or the neutral zone has to be better managed so the trailing guy isn't frigging wide open in the slot every time

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Plus the draft lottery rules have changed dramatically and we can no longer sign our young superstars to lifetime deals. Crosby won 2 cups on an illegal deal. Kings and Hawks had a few of those contracts too.

1st contracts after ELC for star players has changed too.

Not sure when we stop using teams who drafted high picks as the example when a few of those picks were 15+ years ago?

Okay, let’s look at only the last 5 years.

Tampa -> Stamkos, Hedman
Tampa -> Stamkos, Hedman
St. Louis -> Pietrangelo
Washington -> Ovechkin, Backstrom
Pittsburgh -> Crosby, Malkin, Fleury

Championship teams have at least one centre and/or defenceman drafted at the top of the draft.

Championships are won by teams with elite players. The Flames haven’t drafted anything close to an elite player since Tkachuk, and before that Gaudreau - unfortunately both are wingers.

If the goal is to win a Championship, the team needs to be rebuilt. They don’t have the pieces required to win, and they can’t acquire them (although Vegas seems to have done just fine on that front). The team is just doing what they always do - aggressively spend (and overspend) in free agency to try and patch together a team good enough to make playoffs (and they fail at that as often as they succeed), but nowhere near good enough to win a Championship.

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Really look at the comparable markets to Calgary who have tried what you are suggesting. Buffalo and Edmonton who have both been twisting in the wind and absolute garbage for over a decade doing what you are advocating.

Sure Tampa has Stamkos and Hedmen but Stamkos is no where near as relevant to their success than 2nd rounder Kucherov and 3rd rounder Point or late 1st rounder Vaslsilesky. Hedmen absolutely is their pillar on the back end but the key components of that team were not picked high in the draft. Username flubbed on 3 top 10 picks in 4 years post Stamkos/Hedmen in Connolly, Koekkoek, Drouin.

Unless Calgary somehow gets Bedard we are far more likely to have a Edmonton/Buffalo experience than we are Chicago/LA.

LA also only had Doughty that was a top pick. Kopitar, Brown, Richards, Carter, Quick etc all later picks in the first round or beyond

Yes - you need to be a top tier team when it comes to drafting/management on-top of drafting elite talent at the top of the draft. That’s an absolute necessity. When you look at Buffalo and Edmonton, outside of drafting Eichel, McDavid, and Draisaitl those two teams have been complete garbage at drafting and managing their NHL rosters. As critical as I am of Tree, he runs the team generally pretty well and is able to pull NHL’ers from all over the draft - but he can’t overcome the lack of elite talent at the top of his roster.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I don't either, but I am open to giving him a shot to see if he can provide some spark to a line.

The problem here is Sutter has carved a hole in the offense by playing Monahan where he is. Yes, Sean Monahan has lost a step because of injury, but the guy still makes some really heady plays and finds open ice his line mates just can't exploit. They need to take a chance on something to lighting another line up. My solution would be call up Phillips and Pelletier and see of they can contribute.

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk
Dube-Backlund-Mangiapane
Pelletier-Monahan-Coleman
Lucic-Richardson-Phillips/Lewis

I think because of Monahan's skating challenges you have to play him with Coleman, who has the speed and defensive acumen to cover. We're still a proven body off from having a balanced team, but this is the best option without making a trade.

Didn't Sutter say last season that it is management that does the call-ups? Might be why Sutter is making a point about lack of skill because his hands are tied? We either have to call up a player who might not be ready at this level (without reps) or make a trade. Both of these situations may be out of Sutter's hands.

[Burning Beard]

Sutter is talking about the lack of skill as a motivation tool for the players to play the right way game in and game out. That is how Sutter operates. I find the notion that he is sending a message management by saying this pretty silly. I feel he is the kind of guy who would say this directly to management.

[Captain Otto]

It's part scouting, development and luck IMO. Quite simply, you need young draft picks to reach a level of where they contribute regularly and at least one of them, maybe two to be a top 6. Those guys are still cap controlled at that stage.

Then you need a few bonafide 1st liners that also get paid like first liners.

When the draft picks reach the level of wanting big money, you hope you've built a strong winning culture and that THIS is the team that will win a championship. Hopefully that is recognized and you're able to keep the cap in check.

That's what Tampa has done.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Sutter is talking about the lack of skill as a motivation tool for the players to play the right way game in and game out. That is how Sutter operates. I find the notion that he is sending a message management by saying this pretty silly. I feel he is the kind of guy who would say this directly to management.

This was exactly my thought. He’s just trying to create an underdog sensibility. And thinking that he has no say in callups or personnel is silly given the presence of guys like Lewis, who I bet Sutter endorsed heartily.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Sutter is talking about the lack of skill as a motivation tool for the players to play the right way game in and game out. That is how Sutter operates. I find the notion that he is sending a message management by saying this pretty silly. I feel he is the kind of guy who would say this directly to management.

This sounds more likely the case. Needs his players to play a certain way and not fall into the other team's style of play.