[GDT] Chicago at Calgary 7pm MT - SNW1, NBCSCH

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by timbit

I was pointing out that the team is winning with Sutter’s lineup decisions and that
Valimaki played fair to poorly, last game, IMO.

No need to be annoyed.

Not nearly as poorly as Zadorov did the game before. Zadorov is a nightmare in his own end, Valimaki has looked better when he has played and so has the team. Maybe Sutter feels he has to play Z because he makes big dollars.

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Or for ####s and giggles we could use actual stats!

Over the last three years 190 defensemen have played 1000 minutes.

Zadorov is ranked 88th in xGA60 and 104th in CA60.

You don't have to love the player, but he's Calgary's 6th defenseman, bottom roster players move around all the time.

He's firmly in the middle of the pack for defensemen defensively (as advertised) over the past three years.

No need to appeal to any authority. Just look it up.

I rather use the eye test. Does everything need to be fancy stats with you?

Can you ever comment on a player without bringing in advanced stats? Honest question.

He looks fine to you? Even as a 6th d man wouldn't you say he is easily replaceable?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I wouldn't pin any loss on Zadorov in the sense that you're talking about, either, but the fact of the matter is, if someone is annoyed at Zadorov being in the lineup, it's valid to feel that way. "Winning" with Zadorov isn't a virtual guarantee at all. This isn't the Chris Pronger or Zdeno Chara people want us to have.

I would agree.

Won't move the needle much either way.

Sutter has to balance Valimaki's offence with his penchant to not be as good defensively as it stands.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Zadorov is a nightmare in his own end, Valimaki has looked better when he has played and so has the team..

Show your work. Because this argument was easily dismantled on the last page with statistics.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

No I rather not go there. I trust the Hawks decision making regarding hockey.

So, Colliton was a good hire, a good extension just last off season or a good fire? Panarin for Saad was a good trade? Saad for Zadorov? Seabrook’s contract was a good move? Getting rid of Danault? They sent Teravainen to the Canes as a sweetener for them to take Bickell’s contract that they foolishly signed him to.

The Hawks’ good decision making pretty much ended with their big contracts to Toews and Seabrook.

[Monahammer]

"Trust" and "Blackhawks decision making" should be mutually exclusive terms to anyone rational.

[Bongsong]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Show your work. Because this argument was easily dismantled on the last page with statistics.

And the eye test valimaki has not looked good at all besides a couple of nice flashes. Out of position and lumbering skating is all I really see from him.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It’s not valid if it’s just based on “I hate Zadorov” without actually looking at gameplay.

I think that's not an accurate portrayal either though.

Going to back to Flyers game, Zadorov's giveaway eith like 30 seconds left to go in a tie game gave me a proverbial heart attack. Now contrast that with Valimaki, who gave us a 1-0 lead right at the beginning of the Bruins game that they were able to build on with his well-placed point shot. It's almost as if offensive contributions from defensemen are ignored when analyzing their value by some.

I thought Valimaki played relatively poorly last game overall, I'd give him a C. But the core of it is, he didn't play so poorly that he deserves to sit for what will likely be the rest of the month. That's where one gets annoyed.

I don't think our overall record can be used to handwave all player usage. We won the west with James Neal in the lineup in 2019... when teams play well there is a lot of leaway in the regular season. But it ultimately bit us in the ass.

[sureLoss]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1463215312996737036

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

LOL, yes, let’s go on the decision making prowess of the Chicago Blackhawks.

Well, when it comes to hockey decisions, they did win 3 recent Cups.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

Zadorov in a tie game with less than a minute to go turned the puck over and was saved by Blake Coleman.

You won't win the "who has turned the puck over more" game if that's what you want to play.

LOL

I don't want to play anything, because it's stupid. But clearly, you don't see that.

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

I rather use the eye test. Does everything need to be fancy stats with you?

Can you ever comment on a player without bringing in advanced stats? Honest question.

He looks fine to you? Even as a 6th d man wouldn't you say he is easily replaceable?

Newsflash: every NHL teams' 6th Dman is easily replaceable...

Yawn...moving on...

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Dougie Hamilton has been on 4 teams now - terrible defenceman. Also Nate Schmidt. Obviously Zadorov isn’t those guys, but sometimes players just move for a number of varying reasons. I mean, he was pretty decent in his first full season in Buffalo and then was moved in the ROR deal. That’s not a slight against Zadorov by any means. Then he got traded by the Avs for Saad. That’s not a tremendous slight either.

Yes, but Seattle ailed to pick him in the expansion draft (when there was little to pick from Chicago), and Chicago quickly dumped him for a third.

But your point remains, getting traded a number of times often means nothing. Other than one team wanted you, another did not.

Zadorov is not terrible because he's been traded 3 times. He's terrible because he's terrible. But in a cap world, your 6-7th dman is often quite a bit below average.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Well, when it comes to hockey decisions, they did win 3 recent Cups.

It’s getting less and less recent. If you want to talk personnel, they turned Artemi Panarin into Zadorov in two easy steps.

Sutter has won two recent cups himself.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Some kinda GDT.


Go flames go?

Originally Posted by timbit

Personal agendas remain undefeated.

20 games into the season, and the Flames lead the conference.

And every single thread, including every single GDT, GT (when they're winning) and PGT (after they've won - again) has been littered with people wanting to whine about Treliving or Monahan or Zadorov or Valimaki (or whatever else they can think of).

It has been more than pathetic, it is bordering on disgusting.

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I think that's not an accurate portrayal either though.

Going to back to Flyers game, Zadorov's giveaway eith like 30 seconds left to go in a tie game gave me a proverbial heart attack. Now contrast that with Valimaki, who gave us a 1-0 lead right at the beginning of the Bruins game that they were able to build on with his well-placed point shot. It's almost as if offensive contributions from defensemen are ignored when analyzing their value by some.

I thought Valimaki played relatively poorly last game overall, I'd give him a C. But the core of it is, he didn't play so poorly that he deserves to sit for what will likely be the rest of the month. That's where one gets annoyed.

I don't think our overall record can be used to handwave all player usage. We won the west with James Neal in the lineup in 2019... when teams play well there is a lot of leaway in the regular season. But it ultimately bit us in the ass.

Zadorov has 2 goals and 2 assists in in 13 games compared to Valimaki's 2 points (both assists) in 8 games

[Scroopy Noopers]

Flames vs. Team Aiding and Abetting.

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

LOL

I don't want to play anything, because it's stupid. But clearly, you don't see that.

You're the one who said "pro tip, coaches don't rate players based on the W" and said Valimaki caused a breakaway in the Boston game....so you clearly were playing that game.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Yes, but Seattle ailed to pick him in the expansion draft (when there was little to pick from Chicago), and Chicago quickly dumped him for a third.

But your point remains, getting traded a number of times often means nothing. Other than one team wanted you, another did not.

Zadorov is not terrible because he's been traded 3 times. He's terrible because he's terrible. But in a cap world, your 6-7th dman is often quite a bit below average.

He's actually not terrible, and never was,but the Zadorov-Gudbranson pair lacks any offensive value (despite their points, which have been pleasant, but likely not repeatable over a large sample). It's a terribly unbalanced pairing considering they're going to spend more shifts getting offensive zone starts with our top players than they are logging high value shutdown minutes.

If his partner were someone like Kinnvall, or externally someone like Anton Stralman, he'd be a fantastic fit.

[dino7c]

Zadorov has been better than Vali this season...and even if it's a tie the tie goes to the big guy. Great to have in the lineup if #### goes down.