Oliver Kylington: a shilling for your thoughts...

[Enoch Root]

Yeah, this is a year of transition for the defense - time to see which of the young guys can step up and take over

[Drunk Uncle]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Friedman talking about Kylington in 32 thoughts. Flames have to keep him on the team at this point

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...ners-comments/

15. I’m really careful about the first week of pre-season. The best players aren’t dialled in. But if there’s one player who piqued my interest, it was Calgary’s Oliver Kylington. He had one 25-minute game, and it is clear Calgary is giving him exhibition opportunity. But the Flames have a lot of defencemen, and Kylington is not waiver-exempt. (Bonus: His Instagram game is very good.)

And they should keep him on the team. He's looked good with whomever he has played with and clearly been one of the better defenders in the preseason. He also seems to fit well with the right side D-men (all of them really).

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I think that's what flambers means. You draw a line in the sand as to what kind of contract you want to give them, if they don't sign it then you have to trade them instead of just letting them walk. They have to start looking at it like a business and do what is best for the team. They've let our former top pair of defense walk for nothing and that's set the team back even further (I guess it depends on how the kids do) but if they would have traded Brodie for any assets instead of having him play a few playoff games, they'd be further ahead now because they'd have something to show for it.

Look at CBJ when they let their 2 best players walk for nothing, it sucks and has them struggling to be what they were before, and even that wasn't that good. The team just needs to take a hard look at the contract negotiations and ask if the player is worth more on their team or a different team.

It is just not realistic to expect a team to either re-sign or trade all of their pending UFAs. It just won't happen, and because of that every team has in the past and will in the future continue to lose very good players to UFA with nothing in return but cap-space.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yeah, this is a year of transition for the defense - time to see which of the young guys can step up and take over

I think this is worth remembering through the first several weeks of the season. I am thinking in particular of Zadorov, who had not looked great in pre-season, and recalling back to how terrible Dougie Hamilton was his first training camp and at the star of that first season in Calgary. There can be an adjustment period for new players, and not all of them will hit the ground running with their new teams.

[tvp2003]

So Treliving's plan of signing Gudbranson and Stone to push Kylington seems to have worked perfectly

I was bullish on Kylington throughout the offseason so I'm obviously happy he seems to have taken a step here. I just think with the current trend of the NHL, why wouldn't you want a young, mobile defenceman with some offensive upside?

[SeanCharles]

I’m not sure he would report but Stone to Stockton, unless they plan on carrying 8, is the only thing that makes sense, no?

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

I’m not sure he would report but Stone to Stockton, unless they plan on carrying 8, is the only thing that makes sense, no?

I've wondered the same thing. If Stone gets sent down (very possible) does he just hang them up?

But Gudbranson is making this team. Right or wrong unfortunately.

[Enoch Root]

I think Stone would agree to go down because, over the course of the season, there is a 100% chance that one of the Dmen get injured and he gets called up.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think this is worth remembering through the first several weeks of the season. I am thinking in particular of Zadorov, who had not looked great in pre-season, and recalling back to how terrible Dougie Hamilton was his first training camp and at the star of that first season in Calgary. There can be an adjustment period for new players, and not all of them will hit the ground running with their new teams.

Difference is, Dougie had been a tremendous player in Boston. Zadorov has been below replacement level for multiple seasons. What I've seen from him in camp has closely resembled the player I watched in Colorado.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think this is worth remembering through the first several weeks of the season. I am thinking in particular of Zadorov, who had not looked great in pre-season, and recalling back to how terrible Dougie Hamilton was his first training camp and at the star of that first season in Calgary. There can be an adjustment period for new players, and not all of them will hit the ground running with their new teams.

Do Gudbranson next

[goodyear]

Can't wait to Netflix and Kyil this season

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Difference is, Dougie had been a tremendous player in Boston. Zadorov has been below replacement level for multiple seasons. What I've seen from him in camp has closely resembled the player I watched in Colorado.

It's questionable to say that Zadorov is below replacement level though. He's a one dimensional defensive defenceman, who was actually elite defensively last season.

The WAR models tend to place more emphasis on generating offense, and also he gets penalized huge for his penalty contributions, but overall at 5V5 is has been a strong defensive contributor for three seasons now.

I do think you have a bit of a personal dislike/bias for guys who are defensive defensemen.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Difference is, Dougie had been a tremendous player in Boston. Zadorov has been below replacement level for multiple seasons. What I've seen from him in camp has closely resembled the player I watched in Colorado.

Yeah, I strongly disagree that Zadorov is a replacement-level player. He is a non-event player, which is actually a very useful thing to have.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[neo45]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It's questionable to say that Zadorov is below replacement level though. He's a one dimensional defensive defenceman, who was actually elite defensively last season.

The WAR models tend to place more emphasis on generating offense, and also he gets penalized huge for his penalty contributions, but overall at 5V5 is has been a strong defensive contributor for three seasons now.

I do think you have a bit of a personal dislike/bias for guys who are defensive defensemen.

Bolded part just seems logical to me, he’s essentially one of the worst players in the league for taking penalties so that’s a bad quality to have in a “non-event” player

He’s been a strong defensive contributor yes but at the expense of a ton of penalties and all offense when he is on the ice. Is that a good trade off? Other team doesn’t score when he is on but you score even less and take a lot of penalties

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by neo45

Bolded part just seems logical to me, he’s essentially one of the worst players in the league for taking penalties so that’s a bad quality to have in a “non-event” player

He’s been a strong defensive contributor yes but at the expense of a ton of penalties and all offense when he is on the ice. Is that a good trade off? Other team doesn’t score when he is on but you score even less and take a lot of penalties

He's actually had positive five on five actual goal splits in each of the last four seasons.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by neo45

Bolded part just seems logical to me, he’s essentially one of the worst players in the league for taking penalties so that’s a bad quality to have in a “non-event” player

He’s been a strong defensive contributor yes but at the expense of a ton of penalties and all offense when he is on the ice. Is that a good trade off? Other team doesn’t score when he is on but you score even less and take a lot of penalties

Also on the positive side, when he is in the box he’s not missed much on the PK lol

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It is just not realistic to expect a team to either re-sign or trade all of their pending UFAs. It just won't happen, and because of that every team has in the past and will in the future continue to lose very good players to UFA with nothing in return but cap-space.

in the case of Giordano, I really believe he should have been traded at the deadline. Send him to a contender.

[Macho0978]

On paper the Flames d is worse but when your a middle of the pack team you can’t afford to sit on 38 year old declining players. Sucks to lose Gio but I’m excited for a defence group that could have 1 30 year old and 5 players in the 22 to 25 range. This d is questionable but has very good upside. We all should all agree that this d could be bad but IMO it’s the type of group I’d prefer to have this year rather than having Gio back there giving us more certainty. Too many Flames fans and Flames management over the last 30 years seem to have low risk tolerance.

Our defence is a high risk high reward type of group. What’s the worst that can happen? They are terrible and we look to retool more at the trade deadline and add a very high pick?

[Saqe]

Zadorov is a guy who will be potentially a huge net positive in the playoffs when they put the whistles away. The same goes for Gudbransson although having both of them on the same team seems redundant.

[Drunk Uncle]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It's questionable to say that Zadorov is below replacement level though. He's a one dimensional defensive defenceman, who was actually elite defensively last season.

The WAR models tend to place more emphasis on generating offense, and also he gets penalized huge for his penalty contributions, but overall at 5V5 is has been a strong defensive contributor for three seasons now.

I do think you have a bit of a personal dislike/bias for guys who are defensive defensemen.

This is the part I hope people take the most out of your post.

The best part of the cards is being able to tell what kind of player you have and the order of magnitude of how good or bad they are in that area of the game. However, the final WAR% ranking IMO doesn't always accurately represent what that player contributes to a team in the ways you outlined.