Treliving on the Fan

[1Nite]

Originally Posted by neo45

Leivo should have just been a savvy contingency plan, not plan A for our top line

But the reality is right wing was a major issue for our team this off season and Brad’s plan to address that was to move our best option to center and backfill by taking flyers on guys making league minimum or close

The obsession with moving Lindholm to center is strange to me. It’s neutered the top line and we already had a good second line with Backlund. So logic being gut the top line to marginally improve the third? I don’t know but it’s a failure

That top line neutered itself over two years ago and hasn't worked since then, Lindholm is currently the teams best center, just the Flames overall lack of depth is showing the flaws all around.

[Number 39]

IMO if he’s fired Maloney becomes GM. I’d rather have Tree if I’m correct.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Bingo

But isn't that crux of the 121 page argument?

Some are going out of their way to make excuses which is completely balanced out by some that want to blame every thing on the GM.

I don't see the job as a 100% position. It's like commodity trading. You have to be right more often than wrong, and manage your losses well so you end up up overall.

His gamble was on Monahan and Gaudreau and it failed. If you see that as a firing offence you are certainly going to want him gone. But I didn't see a lot of posters suggesting Monahan and Gaudreau were going to fall off the face of the earth 18 months ago ... I know I certainly didn't see it coming. And with that I wouldn't fire him for it.

I don't know, I think fans gambled on Gudreau and Monahan AND a GM that would see those assets and add to them with a RW, a competent goalie, a competent coach, a good bottom 6 etc etc. He failed in a timely manner to get those things. I think I saw G & S as good parts, but not the end and was hoping he'd add to them.

[bluejays]

I will never fault Treliving for always trying to improve and not being afraid of making the big move. However, I think the ego got the best of him when it came to “needing” to sign or trade for certain guys, and under both situations he overpaid at times. His ego tends to get ahead of him, like many C-level type executives. Perhaps it was Burke at the time pushing him to do so but it still was him closing the deal. I’m a bit tired of him at the helm this year though.

[DazzlinDino]

While I am not happy with the construction of the team, I think this is a good opportunity for Brad and Darryl to work together. Brad does a lot of things well but in terms of what it takes to build the kind of team that can compete; Brad needs Darryl and can learn from him. My concern is that both Brad and Darryl like to spend picks to accomplish short term goals and objectives.

If they can manage to make some shrewd hockey trades we might be able to extend the window but the players coming back would need to be younger skilled players that fit the Sutter mold. Can we do this without a rebuild, I think we can. That said I absolutely think we should tank this season and go for the best pick we can get, there are a few teams that occasionally like to tank then come back up for air for a couple seasons. Would be very disappointed if we played out the season with a bunch of wins that put us out of contention for a decent pick.

The players didn't show up when it mattered so the Flames need to do what's best for long term stability.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I don't recall there being massive disagreement on CP about that trade at the time.

Everyone bats 100% in hindsight.

I'm pretty sure I was never a big fan from the day it was announced. Fans shouldn't have more foresight than the GM.

[Glassplat]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

While I am not happy with the construction of the team, I think this is a good opportunity for Brad and Darryl to work together. Brad does a lot of things well but in terms of what it takes to build the kind of team that can compete; Brad needs Darryl and can learn from him. My concern is that both Brad and Darryl like to spend picks to accomplish short term goals and objectives.

If they can manage to make some shrewd hockey trades we might be able to extend the window but the players coming back would need to be younger skilled players that fit the Sutter mold. Can we do this without a rebuild, I think we can. That said I absolutely think we should tank this season and go for the best pick we can get, there are a few teams that occasionally like to tank then come back up for air for a couple seasons. Would be very disappointed if we played out the season with a bunch of wins that put us out of contention for a decent pick.

The players didn't show up when it mattered so the Flames need to do what's best for long term stability.

Agreed....a bunch of wins at this point would be worse case scenario IMO! Tre has always come across publicly as being ultra confident and 100% certain the moves he’s made are for the betterment of the Team....the record shows this has not always panned out. DS has made it well know his goal of returning behind the bench is to win the Stanley Cup. Taken at face value and considering Tre’s track record....this very well could end up disastrous. Whatever strategy they decide on....I hope it’s not driven by impulsive gambles, rather by measured analytical risk based decisions. Unfortunately the recent track record of this Team doesn’t leave me with much confidence in that regard.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm pretty sure I was never a big fan from the day it was announced. Fans shouldn't have more foresight than the GM.

Add my name to the list of people not too keen on the trade either. I almost hate the flavour of the month names brought up each year. The media hypes a lot of the below star level players and every teams fans think they have to have that guy. Harmonic was the guy that year. Last year was Zucker. This year it seems to be Ekholm and Granlund. Granted these guys are good to solid, they’re no stars. I was happy at Treliving’s ego took a hit by missing out on Zucker. These guys all go for a premium and should be avoided each year. But our guy always has to be there making that splash.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I guess I'd have to know who the other person is, which I'm guessing they wouldn't.

In my mind, he's a thorough hard working guy that will only get better.

Not sure I'd want to roll the dice and end up with another Button or Feaster.

It is troubling the organization found Jay Feaster to be entrusted with their hockey operations group and I suspect they regretted it rather early in his tenure.

If the argument is that ownership can’t really be trusted to make an astute GM hire, well I’d say that’s probably the most compelling argument to keep Treliving I have read on here through thousands of posts.

[Toonage]

Had to look through the old Hamonic thread to see what my comments were (I can't recall 4 years ago) and I suggested if it didn't work out the Flames could trade assets for 1st or 2nd round picks and that the rebuild was over.

Lol. So naive.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm pretty sure I was never a big fan from the day it was announced. Fans shouldn't have more foresight than the GM.

Looking over your posts, you nailed it. Your concerns were warranted and it played out like you feared. And you got crapped on for saying it at the time.

Actually the more things change the more things stay the same. The same people are expressing doubt over the team and the same people are shaming them for it.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm pretty sure I was never a big fan from the day it was announced. Fans shouldn't have more foresight than the GM.

To be fair what are you a fan of?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

It is troubling the organization found Jay Feaster to be entrusted with their hockey operations group and I suspect they regretted it rather early in his tenure.

If the argument is that ownership can’t really be trusted to make an astute GM hire, well I’d say that’s probably the most compelling argument to keep Treliving I have read on here through thousands of posts.

I forget how they picked Feaster, aside from maybe the fact he was TB’s GM when they won the cup against Calgary. But looking at it, he’s a guy with zero hockey background who sorta found his way upward and inherited a team with Torts, Lecavalier, Richards, MSL, Boyle etc. He’s the Terry Crisp of GMs.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm pretty sure I was never a big fan from the day it was announced. Fans shouldn't have more foresight than the GM.

It's scary how often this happens.

It reminds me of how Bob MacKenzie's draft lists used to almost always be better than what the Flames ended up doing.

But credit to you for a correct take.
Actually, it appears I also criticized the trade. I called it a "Sutter trade". I'll give myself a pat on the back as well.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm pretty sure I was never a big fan from the day it was announced. Fans shouldn't have more foresight than the GM.

Broken clock and such

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I forget how they picked Feaster, aside from maybe the fact he was TB’s GM when they won the cup against Calgary. But looking at it, he’s a guy with zero hockey background who sorta found his way upward and inherited a team with Torts, Lecavalier, Richards, MSL, Boyle etc. He’s the Terry Crisp of GMs.

He was Sutter’s Assistant GM for a while, wasn’t he? I wonder what Darryl thinks of the guy.

Conroy worked with him too. I heard some interview with Conroy when he talked about how he learned things from Burke and Treliving. Maybe just my interpretation, but he seemed dismissive of Feaster.

I will give Feaster this. He stumbled his way into one or two good trades. Acquiring Russell for like a 5th was really good.

I also remember him explaining the Iginla and Bouwmeester trades and how it was important to have both older and younger prospects.I guess trying to legitimize Cundari and Hanowski. Yeah let’s go out and get some older prospects because we need some of that.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

He was Sutter’s Assistant GM for a while, wasn’t he? I wonder what Darryl thinks of the guy.

Conroy worked with him too. I heard some interview with Conroy when he talked about how he learned things from Burke and Treliving. Maybe just my interpretation, but he seemed dismissive of Feaster.

I will give Feaster this. He stumbled his way into one or two good trades. Acquiring Russell for like a 5th was really good.

I also remember him explaining the Iginla and Bouwmeester trades and how it was important to have both older and younger prospects.I guess trying to legitimize Cundari and Hanowski. Yeah let’s go out and get some older prospects because we need some of that.

Yeah, flor half a year he was AGM under Sutter, so he fell into the job just like in TB after Dudley. Fun fact - interviewed for Minnie and Fla beforehand but not good enough for them.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I forget how they picked Feaster, aside from maybe the fact he was TB’s GM when they won the cup against Calgary. But looking at it, he’s a guy with zero hockey background who sorta found his way upward and inherited a team with Torts, Lecavalier, Richards, MSL, Boyle etc. He’s the Terry Crisp of GMs.

What is your definition of hockey background? Playing or a background in management. Because on the background in management, Feaster definitely had more years in professional hockey management than Brad. Feaster did not play hockey though.

[bluejays]

All this trade chatter got me thinking about what the value of each Flame would be if I was the GM, so I thought I'd give this a thought. The assumption is no players coming back - just draft picks, what's the value of each guy in this years' draft? (parenthesis is the major selling point)

Tkachuk - 2 1sts, 2 2nds (age/skillset)
Gaudreau - 1 1st, 1 2nd (skillset, previous production)
Monahan - 1 1st, 2 2nds (position, previous production)
Backlund - 2 2nds, 1 3rd (position)
Giordano - 1 2nd, 1 4th (position, "leadership")

and for good measure
Bennett - 1 3rd

I personally don't think there will be any deals this deadline as Treliving probably wants to keep the bowels of the roster as is for the expansion draft, but I do think the above values depicts what guys should be going for (the major names at least).

[1qqaaz]

Kelly McCrimmon, Doug Armstrong, Kyle Dubas, Stan Bowman, Lou Lamoriello, David Poile, all had either no or very minimal hockey careers. They're some of the best GMs in hockey.

I don't really really care about the background, moreso the track record. Intelligence beats experience IMO. But it's nice to have both.