Brad Treliving Trade History

[Red]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Sigh. No, it’s really not.

ETA: and Dale Tallon had exactly the same experience.

Originally Posted by dino7c

How could the one of the top markets in the NHL offering him a massive deal matter?

no really are you serious?

These things are obviously negotiated before trades go down

Hang on. So are you saying that Treliving would have known that he could have signed Stone for top $$$? Some on here will disagree.

I agree that he knew. But didn't feel that paying the price in the trade and subsequently the contract was a good deal.

In hindsight, he was wrong.

[Red]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don’t think Stone at $11M+ is that great, even if he would have signed here. He’s a great player but there are only 6 guys making that dough, and only 3 are worth it.

OK so say so.

Id rather have him at 15m than Chucky and Monahan.

[Red]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The player has to agree this isn't a video game

he chose Vegas, a top destination for players...maybe the top destination

and Tkachuk is irrelevant to this convo quit grasping at straws

Video game huh? I don't play video games.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Red

Hang on. So are you saying that Treliving would have known that he could have signed Stone for top $$$? Some on here will disagree.

I agree that he knew. But didn't feel that paying the price in the trade and subsequently the contract was a good deal.

In hindsight, he was wrong.

No - I’m saying Stone refused to commit to any signing in Calgary (or other bidders like Florida and also Winnipeg), whereas he agreed to terms with Vegas.

I’m also saying that even if he had the opportunity to match Vegas’ $9.5M, it would have cost $11M and that’s Matthews/Panarin/McDavid money. That’s just to get even with Vegas, which was just coming off a cup run and is attractive anyway. Calgary probably would need more. For a winger.

[Red]

He did? Were you at the table with him?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Red

Hang on. So are you saying that Treliving would have known that he could have signed Stone for top $$$? Some on here will disagree.

I agree that he knew. But didn't feel that paying the price in the trade and subsequently the contract was a good deal.

In hindsight, he was wrong.

I am not saying that at all

Stone agreed to sign a long term deal with Vegas...that doesn't mean he does the same deal or a deal at all with Calgary.

again you are competing with the top free agent destination in the NHL

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Red

He did? Were you at the table with him?

Seems like a reasonable assumption

I mean you are assuming the Flames just as easily could have signed him when from the players perspective its Calgary vs. Vegas

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Red

OK so say so.

Id rather have him at 15m than Chucky and Monahan.

Irrelevant and also impossible

[Red]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The player has to agree this isn't a video game

he chose Vegas, a top destination for players...maybe the top destination

and Tkachuk is irrelevant to this convo quit grasping at straws

Originally Posted by dino7c

I am not saying that at all

Stone agreed to sign a long term deal with Vegas...that doesn't mean he does the same deal or a deal at all with Calgary.

again you are competing with the top free agent destination in the NHL

I get it. Calgary vs Vegas. Pay up the difference.

All I'm saying is that Stone was a possibility.

Some say he wasn't. The GMs job is to entice.

[dino7c]

I feel once he got wind that Vegas wanted him he was at best a rental for Calgary. Also you realize there is a max contract right? you can't give him 15M and really any more than what he got isn't a good contract. (I don't care if the Flames have other bad contracts because that is irrelevant)

Would an NHL player pick Calgary over Vegas for a couple million bucks a year on a 76M contract? None have yet


realistically its Rental in Calgary vs. Long term in Vegas...obviously they could offer more

[Red]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I feel once he got wind that Vegas wanted him he was at best a rental for Calgary. Also you realize there is a max contract right? you can't give him 15M and really any more than what he got isn't a good contract. (I don't care if the Flames have other bad contracts because that is irrelevant)

Would an NHL player pick Calgary over Vegas for a couple million bucks a year on a 76M contract? None have yet


realistically its Rental in Calgary vs. Long term in Vegas...obviously they could offer more

Good point. But we don't know what he knew. We knew he was available for weeks prior.

One thing I miss about Sutter GM days, no excuses. Calgary was a destination.

[Flamenspiel]

Stone was not going to sign in Calgary, all the insiders confirmed it. It was rental in Calgary vs long term in Vegas. That is a fact.

Every now and then someone brings up the fantasy that he would have signed in Calgary

[DeluxeMoustache]

Yes.

In this thread, you can more easily evaluate the trades that happened based on the results.

To evaluate the trades that didn’t happen, you need to consider what has been reported in terms of leaked or revealed details, the believability of those, what has been suggested, and what makes sense.

Brad couldn’t make trades that other parties were unwilling to commensurate, but he did pursue some quite aggressively.

His job involves maximizing his time working within the realm of the practically and acceptably achievable

I have seen many good people that don’t know when to cut bait on a pursuit, professionally. I like to believe Tre is somewhat diligent based on how he represents his thoroughness, and at the same time, we have seen reports of things he has been ‘in on’ that didn’t come to fruition and seemed like foregone conclusions, with the full benefit of hindsight

[CSharp]

Hamonic was decent and added toughness to the Flames. It was a total overpayment, absolutely. To make it worse though, the team totally failed down the stretch for no good reason. It’s like the GM traded away first and second picks for a year when he thought his team will be in the playoffs and way higher up in the standings. Total opposite! When the Flames weren’t supposed to make the playoffs during the 2nd/3rd year of their rebuild, they get into the playoffs. I just don’t get this team. It’s like it runs itself when it wants to.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

I think a better way to evaluate any gm is to take a macro view, what was the overall plan. In this case, I think the rebuild was ended too soon which hurts the overall growth of the franchise. You can keep winning trades, but if the main issue (lack of elite talent) is not fixed by these trades but may have been with the draft, then it's an overall failure

Well said. Tre reminds me a lot like Sutter. Win some huge trades. Greedy in some areas. Neglect gaping holes in the forward depths.

[united]

Evaluating the trading skill of GMs is extremely difficult and arduous because trades that were actually consummated are only a portion of the analysis, and it takes a lot of educated guessing on "woulda, coulda, shoulda" scenarios based on perceived need at the time the trade took place.


For instance, just one of hundreds of examples that would require a cursory review:

Vincent Trocheck
Right-shooting C/RW with a multi-season history of strong play driving in all three zones, terrific at the faceoff dot, capable penalty killer, plays with an edge, loved in the room, five straight 50+ point/82 game seasons, 26 years old, makes under $5 million and is signed for multiple seasons.

Traded for two third-liners, a decent prospect, and a career AHLer.

What did Treliving offer? Why did Treliving not beat the Hurricanes' offer? Trocheck ticked all the boxes related to the Flames' most pressing need and was available for a bargain relative to his value. This season he is playing at point-per-game pace and would he ever look good at C or RW for the Flames.

[AC]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

Stone was not going to sign in Calgary, all the insiders confirmed it. It was rental in Calgary vs long term in Vegas. That is a fact.

Every now and then someone brings up the fantasy that he would have signed in Calgary

He was on Spittin' Chiclets recently and said he had told his agent prior to the trade to "do whatever it takes" to make sure the contract with Vegas was finalized so the trade would go through. Vegas was the only place he wanted to sign with.

He was not going to sign in Calgary, full stop.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by AC

He was on Spittin' Chiclets recently and said he had told his agent prior to the trade to "do whatever it takes" to make sure the contract with Vegas was finalized so the trade would go through. Vegas was the only place he wanted to sign with.

He was not going to sign in Calgary, full stop.

Good choice too. He's on a great team and in a great long term situation while the Flames chances of contending have essentially collapsed.

[Jacks]

Player signs long term with a team, afterwards he is asked about it and says he only wanted to be there.

Not saying there is no truth to it but that is the standard canned response no?

[Red]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

Stone was not going to sign in Calgary, all the insiders confirmed it. It was rental in Calgary vs long term in Vegas. That is a fact.

Every now and then someone brings up the fantasy that he would have signed in Calgary

Which insiders? The ones we laugh about all the time because they don't know anything?

Why was Ottawa in talks with Treliving till last minute when he was "so clearly" trying to make a deal for a rental? Obviously they would not continue since other team's offers, ones that were not seeing it as a rental, would have blown his away. This took weeks too, there were no last minute surprises on what Stone was going to do. In fact, these same insiders said that Stone was going to sign with whatever team trades for him.

Anyways, none of us were in the room so we can't say for sure. But to me the fact that the talks lasted that long indicates that Stone wasnt a rental.