[Signing] Habs sign Toffoli (4 yrs, $4.25 mil AAV)

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Jim needs to salvage this situation for himself, trade his 1st and 2nd for OEL and tell the fans that was the plan all along. He needs a story beyond just losing 20 percent of the greatest Canucks team in almost a decade because he was asleep at the wheel. Arizona can give him a lifeline.

stop it. Stop posting this. Stop trying to will it to be true. Why would you want to make me cry? What would you gain from making a grown man cry?

Originally Posted by djsFlames

A large part of me agrees but seeing Treliving's inability to seal trades (whether in or out of his control) in the last two years makes me pessimistic that the one needed is on its way soon. Since we waited for iggy to turn into a corpse before dealing him I think many here are concerned as to whether the organization has the stones to make the big move that can revamp the core before those players have expired contract or play-wise.

I am of the opinion that it was a mistake to trade Iginla at all unless he specifically asked for it. I get the business side of things, but I just don't like that with long time faces of the franchise. But that's neither here nor there. The guys you are looking to trade are not in the twilight of their careers. Whether it's Gaudreau (no) or Monahan (yes) you'll get a decent haul

Originally Posted by djsFlames

So basically I was hoping we would take the easier route of just signing a Hall and moving perimeter money to make that work, because it at least seemed like a realistic possibility.

Other than that amazing season in NJ, Hall has been very meh. I feel like you'd be really disappointed if you got him.

Originally Posted by djsFlames

By the way it would be way easier to digest your takes on the canucks if you attached "in theory" before every point. Just saying.

I mean, I am speaking from a position of what I know. Even if I am speaking definitively, all I have are theories.

[bluejays]

The Josh Anderson contract was the classic internal NHL hype machine ramped up. When you get the A-type personality GMs all trying to be the ones to outsmart the others, you get trades and contracts like that one. Personally, I didn't mind the trade, but the contract is atrocious, and the only reasonable thing that I can attribute it to is management ego.


Every year at the deadline or off-season some guys name comes out of nowhere and it seems to be the rage in NHL circles. A couple big ones off the top include Travis Hamonic and Fabian Brunnstrom. You can't buy into hype but it happens.

[Enoch Root]

Nuck-fan tears are some of the tastiest tears there are!

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Nuck-fan tears are some of the tastiest tears there are!

Mine are just pure salt crystals. Crying actually hurts me.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

A large part of me agrees but seeing Treliving's inability to seal trades (whether in or out of his control) in the last two years makes me pessimistic that the one needed is on its way soon. Since we waited for iggy to turn into a corpse before dealing him I think many here are concerned as to whether the organization has the stones to make the big move that can revamp the core before those players have expired contract or play-wise.

So basically I was hoping we would take the easier route of just signing a Hall and moving perimeter money to make that work, because it at least seemed like a realistic possibility to help the forward group.

Going into next season gambling on Gaudreau finding another gear again is getting into amnesia / redefining insanity territory.

By the way it would be way easier to digest your takes on the canucks if you attached "in theory" before every point. Just saying.

I'll never question Treliving's stones to make deals. It's always a two way street when it comes to trades, and the best part of Treliving is he's willing to do them. I think deep down they know they can't go another year with this core. What I think may be the problem is other teams' willingness to do deals this year with contracts being even more of a talking point. Gaudreau's contract on the outside looks juicy, but when you look at the UFA signings this year they're going for 30% cheaper than they would in an ordinary year which tells you that there's a reluctance to do anything right now.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by New Era

Damn. I was really hoping to grab him as an extra top six forward. Opportunity lost, especially at that contract. Tre needs to get it together and improve the forwards as the defense is looking worse than what we had to work with last year. We need more goals.

Nah. We got Markstrom. The forwards will score more now. Don't goalies affect that now?

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by fire_starter

True but flames are losing out on all the big names still out there.

Yeah, but we signed one of the biggest FAs in Markstrom. Other teams are missing out too... Flames have done better than most so far IMO.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Pretty much. Honeydicked us long enough to have us do nothing.

I think this ultimately came down to Benning severely overestimating Arizona's desperation to move Ekman-Larsson. We were told time and again by you—and especially Barca—how badly the Canucks had the Coyotes over a barrel, and how this all but guaranteed the acquisition of a top-pairing defenseman for pennies on the dollar. In actual fact, I suspect that Arizona drew a hard line in the sand, and Vancouver was simply unable to meet their terms—for want of cap-space, and for balking at the prospects and picks it was always going to require to satisfy the Coyotes.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think this ultimately came down to Benning severely overestimating Arizona's desperation to move Ekman-Larsson. We were told time and again by you—and especially Barca—how badly the Canucks had the Coyotes over a barrel, and how this all but guaranteed the acquisition of a top-pairing defenseman for pennies on the dollar. In actual fact, I suspect that Arizona drew a hard line in the sand, and Vancouver was simply unable to meet their terms—for want of cap-space, and for balking at the prospects and picks it was always going to require to satisfy the Coyotes.

Oh no. They are absolutely ####ed. They're going to have a firesale sooner than later to make this work. The team couldn't pay it's post-season bonus payments. It will not be able to keep up with in season payments. This was confirmed in tweets at the time of the bonus-payment failure.

Either way, the Canucks did #### up because they needed to cut line way earlier than they did. And they ####ed up upwards in this case cause they still didn't cripple themselves by getting OEL's contract.

[GioforPM]

Once Calgary missed out on Hall (which only happens with a Gaudreau trade) I was interested in Toffoli. But now that I think more about it, sign him and you have to trade Mangiapane, who will come in cheaper and maybe score just as much. Toffoli’s a 40 point guy, and costs over $4Mx4. Not a bad deal, but Mangiapane might just do that for $3.5x6. And if he doesn’t, Dube might.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Once Calgary missed out on Hall (which only happens with a Gaudreau trade) I was interested in Toffoli. But now that I think more about it, sign him and you have to trade Mangiapane, who will come in cheaper and maybe score just as much. Toffoli’s a 40 point guy, and costs over $4Mx4. Not a bad deal, but Mangiapane might just do that for $3.5x6. And if he doesn’t, Dube might.

Ya, BT needs to sign one of mang or dube to a value contract over term. I think he can get it done and we will be in good shape.

[powderjunkie]

It seems to be from complete incompetence, but I think VAN is inadvertently avoiding landmines and making the mistake so many Canadian teams make by accelerating their rebuild.

The Toffoli trade will likely be regrettable (as so many TDL are), but ultimately it was a 2nd and an NCAA flight risk (who knows what that relationship is like).

I think VAN is actually ending up in a good position to see whether last year was a mirage. Their roster is a bit of a mess whether they retained their best players or not...it makes sense for them to let the garbage lapse and try to shore up their blue-line and forward depth.

I'm still confident they'll find a way to make it worse, though.

[Sylvanfan]

By Habs standards it's a decent deal. But Taffoli is pretty much a second line winger and it's not likely that he will surpass the 25 goal mark again. But for a team like the Flames I would have been okay with this deal. He's been pretty healthy and produced pretty consistently.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by 1Nite

Would be funny if he out scores Anderson.

I would bet money on Toffoli outscoring Anderson in every year of this contract.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

It seems to be from complete incompetence, but I think VAN is inadvertently avoiding landmines and making the mistake so many Canadian teams make by accelerating their rebuild.

The Toffoli trade will likely be regrettable (as so many TDL are), but ultimately it was a 2nd and an NCAA flight risk (who knows what that relationship is like).

I think VAN is actually ending up in a good position to see whether last year was a mirage. Their roster is a bit of a mess whether they retained their best players or not...it makes sense for them to let the garbage lapse and try to shore up their blue-line and forward depth.

I'm still confident they'll find a way to make it worse, though.

Losing a 28 year old who will likely average 40+ points a season over the lifetime of the contract is bad, no matter how you spin it, especially at a 4.25 million per year contract value.

Losing a BC born dman to a 1.7 million dollar a year contract when you are thin on the backend is bad no matter how you spin it.

I doubt ownership was like "we were one game away from the Conference Finals, we better slow down and see what we have here".

Hard to see at this point in time how Jim recovers from this and salvages the off-season. Perhaps a big trade for an available dman, but he will have to give up assets to do that. Something he could have avoided by just signing Toffoli and Stecher.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Losing a 28 year old who will likely average 40+ points a season over the lifetime of the contract is bad, no matter how you spin it, especially at a 4.25 million per year contract value.

Losing a BC born dman to a 1.7 million dollar a year contract when you are thin on the backend is bad no matter how you spin it.

I doubt ownership was like "we were one game away from the Conference Finals, we better slow down and see what we have here".

Hard to see at this point in time how Jim recovers from this and salvages the off-season. Perhaps a big trade for an available dman, but he will have to give up assets to do that. Something he could have avoided by just signing Toffoli and Stecher.

He could also be taking on a contract which is worth a lot these days (no pun intended). It all depends on the appetite for deals right now. Most teams seem to be standing pat, and that doesn't bode well for selling a story to their fans so one would expect the trade market to open up soon enough.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Buff

Nah. We got Markstrom. The forwards will score more now. Don't goalies affect that now?

I know you were being sarcastic, however...

The Flames were 17th in GA/G and the Pacific playoff picture looked as follows:

2. EDM 215 GA
3. VAN 214 GA
4. CGY 214 GA

Neither the Oilers or the Nucks improved their goaltending or their defense. The Flames did.

Simply by dropping our goals against by 10 (1 goal every 7 games), the Flames finish in 2nd quite easily (holding all else equal).

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by fleury

He could also be taking on a contract which is worth a lot these days (no pun intended). It all depends on the appetite for deals right now. Most teams seem to be standing pat, and that doesn't bode well for selling a story to their fans so one would expect the trade market to open up soon enough.

I suspect he will do that, but he is not the only GM that can do that. Players like OEL or Schmidt or Jaden Schwartz will not just be given away. Any GM that picks up those players will give up assets. Everyone knew the Leafs were screwed and they still got a 22 year old forward who played in the NHL in his 20 yr old and 21 yr old season for Johansson. Hard to remember the last time a good player on a big contract was traded for nothing in the NHL, let alone a situation where the team trading the good player added assets.

[Corral]

Meh

Free agents are not going to fix the fact this management group built this roster consisting of too many players who play small and are easy to intimidate. Frankly I doubt the flames care so long as the revenue keeps on coming. It the Calgary flames way.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by N26

Vancouver taking it on the chin a bit in free agency so far. I wouldn't have predicted that.

Still a good team and Holtby could work out well but so far they look weaker.

No. They are not. The Canucks benefitted greatly from career years for several forwards, and other-worldly goaltending. They had high shooting and save percentages, and these sorts of things have a tendency to level out. For a team that was badly outplayed most nights and barely made the playoffs, it doesn't bode particularly well to do any better with the kinds of significant downgrades they have experienced this off-season.