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Old 08-21-2020, 10:05 AM   #81
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Everybody talks about trading Gaudreau to a team where he will flourish with a play driving center.

Food for thought. Why don't we trade for a play driving center, and see him flourish with us? I love Monahan, but he can bump to 2C, and we trade for a bonafide 1c. Yes, I am aware assets need to go the other way, but something to consider

I love Monahan as a 2C, and then see Gaudreau with that real 1C.

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We don't have the assets to keep Gaudreau and acquire a true #1 centre.

Regardless of what anyone thinks about Gaudreau's play, this fact alone should probably be enough to show that this team is probably going to need a full rebuild to actually compete in the playoffs.
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Old 08-21-2020, 10:06 AM   #82
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I actually think Monahan will be better without Johnny. When you play center you are the third guy that has to come back and play low in the defensive zone. (while Johnny just skates around in no mans land) Then in the offensive zone as a center you would kinda hope your wingers will help fore-check. Maybe throw a hit to create a turn over....Maybe be the first guy to the puck instead of slowing down and letting the other guy go first. Help cycle the puck a bit instead of panicking and turning it over to avoid any type of contact.

It has to be exhausting when your constantly doing the dirty work for another player.
I agree. Monahan isn't elite but johnny holds him back just as much as he holds johnny back. Johnny always get the credit of carrying him too.

I love johnny. He was my favorite flame since he started his career. Rumors aren't always true but there has been way too much chatter about his diet, lack of commitment in the off season and drugs and alcohol issues. Sorry but guys like crosby mcdavid mackinnon aren't 0 for 3 on all those things. Some may party some may eat unhealthy but 0 for 3 on those things doesn't make me feel sorry for him right now. He may flip a switch and decide to fix these issues but unfortunately it might be after we deal him


Maybe if he blows up in his exit interview that he's fed up and hates losing and shows treliving he might change maýbe keep him

Also so many want a true #1 center. How we getting one? My guess is we need to draft one. Trade or ufa is unlikely and you need to trade something to get one. Johnny most likely to get that or tkachuk. I think most aren't willing to move tkachuk so something needs to go so we can look to add one.
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Old 08-21-2020, 10:19 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by manwiches View Post
Everybody talks about trading Gaudreau to a team where he will flourish with a play driving center.

Food for thought. Why don't we trade for a play driving center, and see him flourish with us? I love Monahan, but he can bump to 2C, and we trade for a bonafide 1c. Yes, I am aware assets need to go the other way, but something to consider

I love Monahan as a 2C, and then see Gaudreau with that real 1C.

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Stone was that once in a blue moon chance to trade for one and we missed it.

Now we may have another 10 years without one. #flameshockey
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Old 08-21-2020, 10:22 AM   #84
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Stone was that once in a blue moon chance to trade for one and we missed it.

Now we may have another 10 years without one. #flameshockey
Mark Stone? He's a right winger.
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Old 08-21-2020, 10:26 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by manwiches View Post
Everybody talks about trading Gaudreau to a team where he will flourish with a play driving center.

Food for thought. Why don't we trade for a play driving center, and see him flourish with us? I love Monahan, but he can bump to 2C, and we trade for a bonafide 1c. Yes, I am aware assets need to go the other way, but something to consider

I love Monahan as a 2C, and then see Gaudreau with that real 1C.

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Missed that chance when ROR was dealt from Buffalo to St. Louis.

The best centers traded in the last few years are:

ROR x 2
Duchene x 2
Kadri
Schenn
Miller (plays C sometimes)
Trochek

Top flight Cs do not get moved very often.
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Old 08-21-2020, 04:45 PM   #86
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I concur.

I think JG takes too much of the blame.

Can you imagine JG with a high end play driving center, with speed, like Mackinnon or Brazal driving up the ice with him.

When he is moving his feet he is an elite player, playing with a guy like Monahan causes him to float at times.
With respect to the bolded, yes he absolutely does take the brunt of fan blame. Maybe it's because he's not an Iginla type (I think there are segments of the fan base that only like that type of player - big, bruising and can score).

Remember a few years back when Cammy was giving a post season interview and Millions suggested Johnny had to pack on weight? Cammy disagreed and said that isn't him. Just because a Cammy and St. Louis or even Mangiapane are similar height they have different frames. Meaning they are thicker players who can be strong or sturdy. Less observant fans want Johnny to do the same but he's got a slighter frame.

Cammy said that Johnny is effective because he's elusive. Cammy was able to always be pretty strong and could stand up against physicality.

To me Johnny has produced plenty in big games throughout his career but he's not going to be that put that team on my back guy like Iginla who was all power and toughness.

It's not Gaudreau's fault that he's kind of the only dynamic offensive guy who can consistently put up points by creating his own offense and creating for others.

I understand the frustration with the 5 v 5 results this playoffs but I don't agree that Johnny was unwilling or didn't try. What I see is a guy who always is trying to create - he doesn't shut himself down mentally (I think he's mentally strong player by how he keeps trying to attack, trying to make plays even when the game is going against him.

Gaudreau is a thread the needle type playmaker and dynamite off the rush. He totally transformed this team when he arrived on the scene. There are only a handful of people in the world that can do what he does on the ice. He needs help come playoff time but do you think a forecheck game is where he's going to excel?

I think CGY needs to look at how elite teams are not really forecheck teams in these playoffs. They gain the zone and attack in waves by backing the opponent off.

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Old 08-21-2020, 05:16 PM   #87
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JG isn’t as agile or fast anymore .

Age and lifestyle catch up . He entered the league as an older rookie .

He’s 27. It’s not ancient , but it’s a lot different then 22

He needs to dedicate himself to being the best . However most players don’t have that extra dedication level. It’s the same reason most of us who are good at their jobs don’t push to the extra level to become the greatest . We stay out watching Flames game and working a bit hungover the next morning .

Deep down most people are lazy to a degree. It takes a very special human to push themselves to the next level
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Old 08-21-2020, 05:32 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
With respect to the bolded, yes he absolutely does take the brunt of fan blame. Maybe it's because he's not an Iginla type (I think there are segments of the fan base that only like that type of player - big, bruising and can score).

Remember a few years back when Cammy was giving a post season interview and Millions suggested Johnny had to pack on weight? Cammy disagreed and said that isn't him. Just because a Cammy and St. Louis or even Mangiapane are similar height they have different frames. Meaning they are thicker players who can be strong or sturdy. Less observant fans want Johnny to do the same but he's got a slighter frame.

Cammy said that Johnny is effective because he's elusive. Cammy was able to always be pretty strong and could stand up against physicality.

To me Johnny has produced plenty in big games throughout his career but he's not going to be that put that team on my back guy like Iginla who was all power and toughness.

It's not Gaudreau's fault that he's kind of the only dynamic offensive guy who can consistently put up points by creating his own offense and creating for others.

I understand the frustration with the 5 v 5 results this playoffs but I don't agree that Johnny was unwilling or didn't try. What I see is a guy who always is trying to create - he doesn't shut himself down mentally (I think he's mentally strong player by how he keeps trying to attack, trying to make plays even when the game is going against him.

Gaudreau is a thread the needle type playmaker and dynamite off the rush. He totally transformed this team when he arrived on the scene. There are only a handful of people in the world that can do what he does on the ice. He needs help come playoff time but do you think a forecheck game is where he's going to excel?

I think CGY needs to look at how elite teams are not really forecheck teams in these playoffs. They gain the zone and attack in waves by backing the opponent off.
I think we agree..

I totally think Johnny is at his best when he is creating plays off the rush.

My point is Monahan just cruises into the slot flat footed all the time and Johnny comes down the wing with the puck looking for him.

It’s old hat and very predictable.

A center who can carry the puck in on his own with speed and has the ability to drive the net would open up so many more options for the line.

I like both players but think the days of them being on the same line together should come to an end.
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Old 08-21-2020, 05:46 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by manwiches View Post
Everybody talks about trading Gaudreau to a team where he will flourish with a play driving center.

Food for thought. Why don't we trade for a play driving center, and see him flourish with us? I love Monahan, but he can bump to 2C, and we trade for a bonafide 1c. Yes, I am aware assets need to go the other way, but something to consider

I love Monahan as a 2C, and then see Gaudreau with that real 1C.

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Originally Posted by Erick Estrada View Post
Those that think Monahan was doing the dirty work and held back by Gaudreau are going to be in for a rude awakening if the Flames don't find a solid replacement for Johnny on the wing. Monahan can do one thing really well and that's shoot the puck and finish around the net. Everything else in his game is more suited to 2nd/3rd line center role.

The Flames’ best case scenario lies somewhere within these two posts. The ideal situation for the flames is to be able to move Monahan to the 2C position (Backlund to 3C then a Ryan or whatever as 4C) and to have a true 1C with Gaudreau. Bennett was likely part of this plan, but, for a number of reasons, it never happened (as many have pointed out).

However, as one reply to manwiches said, it’s near impossible for the Flames to obtain a 1C from outside the org at this point while retaining Monahan as a 2C—unless they consider sacrificing good youth on the backend...even then, 1Cs are super hard to come by.

With all that in mind, it’s frustrating that Lindholm was never really tried at 1C, even just to see what they had. This is especially brutal in hindsight: why not have mixed it up at all, given the constant struggles that entire line had?

As for people looking to trade Gaudreau, I tend to agree with Erick E. He drives that line, for better or for worse. The idea of trading him without substantial return reminds me of Peter and the boat off of Family Guy:

https://youtu.be/yZpIog7e-R4
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Old 08-21-2020, 10:01 PM   #90
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Off-ice this off-ice that.
News flash, that Dallas team which just eliminated us features Tyler Seguin on their first line.
That Johnny everybody is bitching about is still somehow consistently one of our leader in offence every year.
It's beyond stupid our recent coaches all tried to make his line play dump and chase hockey, that's not his game.

We need to open the wallet and hire a real elite coach before we gut the existing team beyond repairable.
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Old 08-21-2020, 10:07 PM   #91
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We don't have the assets to keep Gaudreau and acquire a true #1 centre.

Regardless of what anyone thinks about Gaudreau's play, this fact alone should probably be enough to show that this team is probably going to need a full rebuild to actually compete in the playoffs.
Does Monahan, Mangiapane and kylington get you either Malkin or Kopitar?

That would be the type of big possession driving monster centre that Gaudreau could flourish with. Both are old but that’s the only type of deal I think could make to flip Monahan for a true number 1.
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Old 08-24-2020, 09:13 AM   #92
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This morning Eric Francis doubles down and says he thinks "Gaudreau is gone" and it "doesn't matter" if he takes responsibility for the poor performance of the 1st line...again.

I know people don't have much respect for Francis but I'd be really surprised if he would stick his neck out like this if he didn't feel certain that John was going to be shipped out.
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Old 08-24-2020, 09:20 AM   #93
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Mark Stone? He's a right winger.
Yikes. I thought he was a centre due to how much people talked about his 2 way play.

I guess it's even harder to find a #1C; we haven't even sniffed at one.
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Old 08-24-2020, 09:21 AM   #94
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This morning Eric Francis doubles down and says he thinks "Gaudreau is gone" and it "doesn't matter" if he takes responsibility for the poor performance of the 1st line...again.

I know people don't have much respect for Francis but I'd be really surprised if he would stick his neck out like this if he didn't feel certain that John was going to be shipped out.
Like the same time he was 100% confident that the Flames canned Hartley to hire Boudreau?
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Old 08-24-2020, 09:23 AM   #95
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Does Monahan, Mangiapane and kylington get you either Malkin or Kopitar?

That would be the type of big possession driving monster centre that Gaudreau could flourish with. Both are old but that’s the only type of deal I think could make to flip Monahan for a true number 1.
Even if that trade did make us better? Why do we make it?

Both players are 33/34. It just delays (or speeds up) the inevitable while wasting assets.
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Old 08-24-2020, 09:25 AM   #96
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Everybody talks about trading Gaudreau to a team where he will flourish with a play driving center.

Food for thought. Why don't we trade for a play driving center, and see him flourish with us? I love Monahan, but he can bump to 2C, and we trade for a bonafide 1c. Yes, I am aware assets need to go the other way, but something to consider

I love Monahan as a 2C, and then see Gaudreau with that real 1C.

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Because even if that could happen he's only going to flourish for us for 2 more seasons at most. Then he's gone and we'll have nothing to show for it. So unless you think we're winning the cup next year or the year after, he needs to be traded.
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Old 08-24-2020, 10:06 AM   #97
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This morning Eric Francis doubles down and says he thinks "Gaudreau is gone" and it "doesn't matter" if he takes responsibility for the poor performance of the 1st line...again.

I know people don't have much respect for Francis but I'd be really surprised if he would stick his neck out like this if he didn't feel certain that John was going to be shipped out.
What? Francis sticks his neck out all the time and says things that are either false or do not come to fruition.
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Old 08-24-2020, 10:19 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by SportsJunky View Post
This morning Eric Francis doubles down and says he thinks "Gaudreau is gone" and it "doesn't matter" if he takes responsibility for the poor performance of the 1st line...again.

I know people don't have much respect for Francis but I'd be really surprised if he would stick his neck out like this if he didn't feel certain that John was going to be shipped out.
It's nothing more than Hot Take journalism. It's for media people that have little knowledge or inside information who rely on provocative statements to remain relevant. This is Francis in a nutshell. He's our very own poor man's version of Skip Bayless/Stephen A Smith.
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Old 08-24-2020, 12:08 PM   #99
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This morning Eric Francis doubles down and says he thinks "Gaudreau is gone" and it "doesn't matter" if he takes responsibility for the poor performance of the 1st line...again.

I know people don't have much respect for Francis but I'd be really surprised if he would stick his neck out like this if he didn't feel certain that John was going to be shipped out.
Didn’t Eric Francis practically guarantee that Brodie would be gone and Hamonic would be the one re-signing. It looks like the opposite would be true. Truth is, Francis is a blowhard and is wrong a lot. So I take everything he says with a grain of salt.
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Old 08-24-2020, 12:21 PM   #100
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I guess we'll have to see how it plays out.
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