Geoff Ward - Worst head coach ever

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Nashville: Rinne is playing at the Rittich level since the All Star game.. Sarros 16 starts Rinne 7 starts

Flames Rittich 12 starts Talbot 10 starts.

Play Talbot until he has a couple of games where he is the clear reason for a loss .... like Rittich was last night

*sigh*

Geoff Ward correctly noted that the first two goals were on poor coordination of F3 and the D, and the last goal was clearly an unrepeatable fluke

Rittich was beaten by a bad rebound and his own subsequent recovery, two cross slot one timers, and a fluke deflection by Mang

Lehner by contrast was beaten twice by shots to which he was square and set

So please just stop it

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Nashville: Rinne is playing at the Rittich level since the All Star game.. Sarros 16 starts Rinne 7 starts

Flames Rittich 12 starts Talbot 10 starts.

Play Talbot until he has a couple of games where he is the clear reason for a loss .... like Rittich was last night

Yeah, let’s use Nashville as the example of a team doing things better than Calgary. That’s why they’re so far ahead in the .... oh wait.

BTW they played their last 4 games Saros starting 3, Rinne starting 1. Just like Talbot/Rittich. And Saros has 3 shutouts which might just change the equation, no?

[NewFan]

I think Peter was much better than Ward to manage the team during the game. I can understand there many reasons why Ward make some decisions during the game, who will play and when, or when to call the time-out.
My biggest worry is, I don't see any improvement in team's overall game. I can't see any changes from him that helped to win games except some line changes or very simple system like chip and chase and win battles. Still bad D, not consistent F, not good in neutral zone.
For me the team is winning because some talent and hard work from some of players. It would be nice if there is a system to support a little bit more to help these players.

[thefoss1957]

In Chicago we, very briefly, had a guy who's name was a Dog Food brand, and, frankly, coached like a dog, as he couldn't find a balance between the Euro style he craved, and the Pulford/Murray roster of goons and plumbers who were assembled as an attempt to bring back the 70's. His name was Alpo Suhonen, and should serve as a reminder that front office struggles can filter down to the on-ice product.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by troutman

Surely you can show us evidence of thousands of examples of games impacted by timeouts, that can’t can’t be explained by other factors. I’ve searched and have not found anything. I assume when timeouts are taken to change momentum, the team with the lead is already sitting back, so you have to account for that.

There are many television timeouts too (three per period).

Firstly, "that cant be explained by other factors" was never asked. That's part of what made the original statement stupid.

If you'd like I can post clips but to be completely honest, if you dont believe time outs have any effect on the game, you've bottled my mind.

A little background, the timeout has been a part of the NHL since 1983, in which tens of thousands of games have been played. Time outs have been used to give scoring lines a chance to rest when a timely goal is needed, they have also been used to give defenders time to compose themselves after a lengthy shift. Finally it has been used by literally every team in the league to establish and execute a set play.

But time outs have no effect?

[Dan403]

Terribad thread is terribad.

[PaperBagger'14]

Double post

[Gaskal]

Do any stats sites or services even track if & when a timeout is taken mid game? Can't seem to find it on Hockey Reference and Natural Stat Trick gamelogs.

[PaperBagger'14]

Modified reddit searches have returned quite a few results

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

How do we know though? We as fans don’t know other team’s strategies and their strengths and weaknesses. I feel like this team knows what to expect out of their opponents. They know if they’ll be in for a track meet or if they should expect a defensive grind of a game. They certainly play a style against the Oilers that is more conducive to success than in the past.

This team’s biggest problem has been their desire i think. These players just don’t have that burning desire to compete against the bad teams. They’ve been able to get up for the good teams. But they think they can just skill their way to victory against the bad teams.

They bought into their own hype as the second best team last season and I’m not sure any coach can force their team to care. Ken Hitchcock certainly didn’t help the Oilers last season and he’s a hall of famer. I think Treliving’s goal should be to find skilled guys with that 4th line mentality like Crosby has or guys who step on the peddle even when up. That killer instinct and that never satisfied attitude. That would help this team stay more consistent on a day to day, game by game basis.



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If we cant confirm nor deny that anything he is doing has any net positive or negative affect on the team what so ever then in my opinion they need to try getting a coach with some sort of previous success. I'm not saying he is bad like the OP but i'm not saying he is good either. For him to keep his job the Flames need to see the second round imo and I need to see him adapt and change his game plan if the Flames run into adversity in the PO unlike Peters.

To be a playoff contender we need a coach that adds some sort of measurable value otherwise why have a coach at all. The Flames certainly need roster upgrades as well but I dont think Ward is the coach that's going to get them to the next level. Motivation is a large part of the job and im not seeing it. The players need to take responsibility to but when have the Flames last had a coach that the players actually respected Sutter? Hartley for 1 season? Ward is a nice guy but I dont know that he is consistently helping them get up and be fully prepared for these games or they wouldn't fall behind so often. If they dont get to the second round there are many available coaches right now with fantastic resumes. It would be a good time to at least get a big name once and see where it goes.

[Resolute 14]

Ward to me is a slightly better Gulutzan. He's a bit more adaptable, which is why he's a slightly better head coach, but I see many of the same problems in Ward's system as we saw in Gulutzan's. Most especially with the breakout. It's the same plodding exit that involves many passes to the middle and turnovers inside the blue line.

Or, tl;dr: good assistant coach, mediocre head coach. He's definitely stepped up following the Bill Peters mess, but honestly, we need a better coach next year.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Firstly, "that cant be explained by other factors" was never asked. That's part of what made the original statement stupid.

If you'd like I can post clips but to be completely honest, if you dont believe time outs have any effect on the game, you've bottled my mind.

A little background, the timeout has been a part of the NHL since 1983, in which tens of thousands of games have been played. Time outs have been used to give scoring lines a chance to rest when a timely goal is needed, they have also been used to give defenders time to compose themselves after a lengthy shift. Finally it has been used by literally every team in the league to establish and execute a set play.

But time outs have no effect?

Hold on - we are probably talking about different things here.

I would agree a coach's time out is for sure effective at resting tired players, and I think that it what it should be saved for. I can also see how the timeout can be used to plan a set play. What I am questioning is whether coach's timeouts actually change momentum, which seems to be what many people here want them used for.

As for using a coach's timeout to change momentum, I'm asking for a study or evidence that shows such timeouts have real impacts on outcomes of games. I'd be interested to see any research like that - my theory is that this kind of timeout probably does not change momentum as much as we think.

Clips are not great evidence - they are anecdotal. What are they proving? What other explanations are there for the observed results?

How would one conduct such a study? I think you would have to show over many seasons if there is any change in goals for/against per minute after a "momentum" timeout, that can't be explained by other circumstances (ex. change in goaltending, the team with the lead sitting back).

Given that there are already three tv timeouts per period, what can be accomplished in a shorter coach's timeout, that can't be accomplished at the next tv break?

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by theg69

That is twice that he has iced Talbot after 3 straight wins. I have had absolutely enough of his asinine goaltending decisions. It should be win and you are in.

I am not even going to talk about his lack of time out skills and bizarre lines with Rinaldo when we are down by one.

I hope that ANYONE from management will see this thread and actually tell our head coach to get his head out of you know where.

I don’t think Ritter singlehandedly lost this game but he looks lost out there.

Ok, I am done my rant. I never start threads - but I have had enough with some of the worst head coaching decisions I have ever seen since following this team.

I hope management never looks at an internet forum to make decisions. Especially this thread in particular... could you imagine Treliving addressing the press: " I wasn't sure about Ward as the HC, but then I was perusing CalgaryPuck as I often do when faced with tough decisions, I noticed a thread titled "Geoff Ward - Worst coach ever" - It was at that point I knew what needed to be done. I almost looked at the numbers, the internal evidence that fans aren't privy to, to make my decision. Thank god I didn't. And so I made the call, I fired Geoff Ward and hired Gallant, Boudreau and Laviolette as coaches, as CP instructed. "

[FusionX]

I posted this in the PGT but I would have advocated for a timeout right after they scored the tying goal. The reasoning would be to settle the team down, don't let them get too high or in this case unfortunately, too complacent thereby leading to the 4th goal. I just feel like we've seen this post-goal let down once too many times with this team. I can't be the only one who was super stoked but worried at the same time because there was still 3 min left in the 3rd. Would it have been unorthodox? Sure, and that would be the hope really. Get the team back into the right headspace and play the same way into and through OT.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

We all wish the Flames could have made it to overtime, but the fact is they were rather lucky to have tied it in the first place. Vegas was the better team throughout the game. Is that on Ward? Partly for sure, but this team has been inconsistent all year. Under Ward, they have been a little less inconsistent, which puts them in the mix. Not great, but not bad considering the circumstances in which he found himself as HC.

[badger89]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Ward's record as head coach since taking over is 24-14-3 coming into tonight. That's a winning percentage of .622.

/end thread.

The problem is the Flames won 7 in a row during Ward's honeymoon phase. They've been a pedestrian 17-14-3 since.

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[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by FusionX

I posted this in the PGT but I would have advocated for a timeout right after they scored the tying goal. The reasoning would be to settle the team down, don't let them get too high or in this case unfortunately, too complacent thereby leading to the 4th goal. I just feel like we've seen this post-goal let down once too many times with this team. I can't be the only one who was super stoked but worried at the same time because there was still 3 min left in the 3rd. Would it have been unorthodox? Sure, and that would be the hope really. Get the team back into the right headspace and play the same way into and through OT.

At home, tie the game in the 3rd and have the crowd going nuts.....and call a T.O.? Can honestly say I’ve never seen that before.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by FusionX

I posted this in the PGT but I would have advocated for a timeout right after they scored the tying goal. The reasoning would be to settle the team down, don't let them get too high or in this case unfortunately, too complacent thereby leading to the 4th goal. I just feel like we've seen this post-goal let down once too many times with this team. I can't be the only one who was super stoked but worried at the same time because there was still 3 min left in the 3rd. Would it have been unorthodox? Sure, and that would be the hope really. Get the team back into the right headspace and play the same way into and through OT.

It's true that a team is most vulnerable after scoring a goal, but that's really not what happened, Vegas pushed for another goal and got a lucky one from a non scoring area. It was random, that being said the Flames did play much better on the recent raid trip but the Knights are a top team and totally dominated the oilers the next night.

[FusionX]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

At home, tie the game in the 3rd and have the crowd going nuts.....and call a T.O.? Can honestly say I’ve never seen that before.

I totally agree and for another team that's not as inconsistent and labile, it would make no sense. For the 2019-2020 Flames though? Sure the goal was flukey but how surprised were we all when it happened? Hindsight is 20/20 of course but I wonder if that goal would not have happened if a timeout was called. Of course, Ward could have done so and the argument would then be that it killed momentum and we didn't get a 4th or they scored a 4th etc.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I hope management never looks at an internet forum to make decisions. Especially this thread in particular... could you imagine Treliving addressing the press: " I wasn't sure about Ward as the HC, but then I was perusing CalgaryPuck as I often do when faced with tough decisions, I noticed a thread titled "Geoff Ward - Worst coach ever" - It was at that point I knew what needed to be done. I almost looked at the numbers, the internal evidence that fans aren't privy to, to make my decision. Thank god I didn't. And so I made the call, I fired Geoff Ward and hired Gallant, Boudreau and Laviolette as coaches, as CP instructed. "

Well I think it would be awesome.