[News] Flames buyout Michael Stone's contract after clearing waivers

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Neal, brouwer, stone together around $10m in cap space. That would been enough to sign the stone in Vegas.

I'm a huge fan of Tre, but these are costly mistakes!

hmm, I have been told that it's not a big deal.

I don't know who to believe anymore.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

This has basically been how we've traded off leading into 19/20 with our offseason moves

Hathaway --> Lomberg / Dube
Neal --> Lucic
Stone --> Kylington
Smith --> Talbot

You probably have some minor gains and minor losses in there. Overall, the change is probably minimal, if just neutral.

It may feel like a bad one but that's just cause there's been so little action that everything done has been magnified.

If those depth changes are basically a wash, then outside of that, I think the young core being older makes you better and Valimaki will be a marked improvement to the third pairing.

And I still think Lucic just being a scary monster out there provides a boost to the psyches of the skilled players.

I might rearrange that as:

Hathaway -> Lucic
Neal -> Dube

which I think is an improvement. In fact, going down the roster by TOI, I don't think the changes look bad at all...

Forwards (assumes Frolik is still there, or there is someone to replace him):
8. Jankowski ----> Bennett
9. Neal ----------> Jankowski
10. Bennett -----> Mangiapane
11. Hathaway ---> Lucic
12. Czarnik ------> Dube
13. Mangiapane -> Czarnik
14. Dube --------> anybody's guess

and on defense (assuming Brodie is still here):
5. Andersson --> Andersson
6. Kylington ---> Valimaki
7. Valimaki ----> Kylington
8. Prout -------> Davidson
9. Fattenberg -> Yelesin
10. Stone -----> Valiev

I think the forward and D groups both look better, when looked at according to ice time.

If Brodie is gone, the D will be really thin though.

[Rando]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Big physical players with relatively limited skating ability. Bouma, Brouwer, Neal, Stone, you can add Hamonic to that list if we give him an extension instead of letting him go as we should, we're already seeing some red flags there.

Don't think Hamonic or Bouma belong in that group.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

hmm, I have been told that it's not a big deal.

I don't know who to believe anymore.

It's a big deal but all the GM's make these mistakes as it's just the nature of hitting and missing in free agency. The alternative is to simply never sign any top or mid-tier UFA's ever. We just saw another batch of horrible contracts handed out this summer and they weren't done by Treliving.

[TheScorpion]

You've forgotten Davidson, Enoch. He slots in ahead of Yelesin.

I wonder if Stone's departure opens the door to Mangiapane to switch numbers to 26, his junior number from Barrie. Sure hope not, he looks great in 88.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Neal, brouwer, stone together around $10m in cap space. That would been enough to sign the stone in Vegas.

I'm a huge fan of Tre, but these are costly mistakes!

Yup. At some point, I am sure the owners are going to get sick of cutting cheques to pay players to not play for the Flames. It’s awfully wasteful and sooner or later they will hold him accountable even if the team is winning on the ice (as they should).

[Matty81]

Capfriendly's summary says the Flames cap hit is 73.7 mil, but if you add up the totals for forwards, D, goalies and buyouts on the roster it only totals 71.3.


Is that a result of bonuses carrying over or something? Doesn't make sense to me.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

You've forgotten Davidson, Enoch. He slots in ahead of Yelesin.

I wonder if Stone's departure opens the door to Mangiapane to switch numbers to 26, his junior number from Barrie. Sure hope not, he looks great in 88.

thanks, updated

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's a big deal but all the GM's make these mistakes as it's just the nature of hitting and missing in free agency. The alternative is to simply never sign any top or mid-tier UFA's ever. We just saw another batch of horrible contracts handed out this summer and they weren't done by Treliving.

I saw bingo write this same thing.

I don't think it's exactly a ringing endorsement to say that Treliving handcuffed himself so badly with bad contracts that he was unable to sign any more.

That seems like flat out terrible reasoning.

[Rando]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's a big deal but all the GM's make these mistakes as it's just the nature of hitting and missing in free agency. The alternative is to simply never sign any top or mid-tier UFA's ever. We just saw another batch of horrible contracts handed out this summer and they weren't done by Treliving.

I get second hand embarrassment for the select few here who obsess when others disagree with them then passively bring it up months later in a condescending way. As if their butts are clean.

[agulati]

Originally Posted by Matty81

Capfriendly's summary says the Flames cap hit is 73.7 mil, but if you add up the totals for forwards, D, goalies and buyouts on the roster it only totals 71.3.


Is that a result of bonuses carrying over or something? Doesn't make sense to me.

There is something wrong with the math you are doing. Forwards are 42.99, Defensemen are 22.59, goalies are 5.5 and buyouts are 2.67. The total comes to ~73.75 million.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by agulati

There is something wrong with the math you are doing. Forwards are 42.99, Defensemen are 22.59, goalies are 5.5 and buyouts are 2.67. The total comes to ~73.75 million.

Lol yep sticky numberpad apparently missed a # on the buyouts.

Tight situation, wonder what they are going to do here. Gotta think they will need to free up another 1.5 or so in space.

Surprising Frolik or Brodie hasn't been moved yet like 95% of us expected.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Neal, brouwer, stone together around $10m in cap space. That would been enough to sign the stone in Vegas.

I'm a huge fan of Tre, but these are costly mistakes!

They would have had to given up major assets too...and the Vegas contract is likely cheaper than what he would have signed for in Calgary.

[ST20]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Pretty simple. When he has leverage he users it well to his favor but if the player has the leverage/even playing field he seems to struggle.

Stone would still be needed on this team if Anderson, Valimaki, and Kylington did not take big steps to becoming vital cogs on the back end.

I don't disagree on the signing since it was a position of need at the time. The issue is the AAV - it seemed like a big over pay to me.

[FlamesFanFromBC]

Not sure they can fit Tkachuk and Mangiapane with remaining cap.

• If there were able to trade Stone that extra 1.1M would have really made a difference
• Or buyout Brodie rather than Stone to get more cap room

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I think you may be confused with my post. I was critical of the pro scouting, not the amateur scouting. I’ve actually been very complimentary of the work the amateur scouts have done. If anything, we’ve diverted way too many assets from the amateur scouts in favor of the pro scouts.

Who knows, maybe in another world, the Flames never traded for Brian Elliott and the Flames end up drafting Alex Debrincat and then we never sign Neal.

Michael Stone was a very good foot solder for us when he got traded, he certainly fit a need at the time. Whether he should have gotten 3 years is unlikely, but that turned worse because of the emergence of Valimaki, Andersson and Kyllington and Stone's health issues. Cervenka was skating in cement with the same ailment when he came back. It was an unfortunate situation all around in hindsight, but not necessarily a poor decision.

Funny enough as a side note, Cervenka was blasted as a disappointment when he was a Flame, yet he got more goals than Neal did with a shortened 39 game season.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Neal, brouwer, stone together around $10m in cap space. That would been enough to sign the stone in Vegas.

I'm a huge fan of Tre, but these are costly mistakes!

But then Valimaki wouldn’t be here and we’d need to keep Michael Stone to play D and it would be lame to buy him out after acquiring his brother.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I saw bingo write this same thing.

I don't think it's exactly a ringing endorsement to say that Treliving handcuffed himself so badly with bad contracts that he was unable to sign any more.

That seems like flat out terrible reasoning.

Well I can argue it's terrible reasoning to fire a GM that built a team that just finished first in its conference for the first time in 30 years because of a small handful of bad free agent contracts. I'm the first person to say he needs to get his act together but I am also under no illusion that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence as there's plenty of worse GM's out there.

[ST20]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Big physical players with relatively limited skating ability. Bouma, Brouwer, Neal, Stone, you can add Hamonic to that list if we give him an extension instead of letting him go as we should, we're already seeing some red flags there.

He definitely over paid to acquire Hamonic but I think Travis is a good piece for this team.

Tre seems to get tunnel visioned on an a certain aspect that the team is lacking (e.g. physicality) and then seems to go out of his way to obtain that piece and ends up over paying. Not an indictment of his overall job as a GM but it's a little frustrating to see the team waste cap space when the top core players are signed to such great deals.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanFromBC

Not sure they can fit Tkachuk and Mangiapane with remaining cap.

• If there were able to trade Stone that extra 1.1M would have really made a difference
• Or buyout Brodie rather than Stone to get more cap room

Buyout TJ Brodie?