Alberta Election Thread - Election Day April 16 2019

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by Dion

What type of campaign would you prefer? I'm being serious here.

One where parties talked about their policies, ran on their records and most all talked about what they would do for Albertans?

Or the constant attacks we see from all parties that try to belittle the other leader?

I know which one I'd choose.

If Kenny was using this sort of language about a non-fatal DUI incident in the 80’s he was at fault for, then I would agree with you that what was said was enough. However he bragged about supporting a policy that actively hurt people by tearing them apart from their dying loved ones solely because of his discirimination against the LGBTQ+ community. Just saying “I regret it” isn’t enough, especially if he wants people from the community to vote for him.

[Erick Estrada]

It's a dream but it would be nice to see the Alberta party displace the NDP as opposition.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

To be fair to NDP I don't know if any party has the answer for health car. With the population aging it's just getting worse. It seems like my wife's parents spend as much time at hospitals and clinics as they do at home and I know they aren't outliers. The money has to come from somewhere but then again it's not our job to find the money, that's the government's it's never a good look when the government in power blames lack of funding when they are the ones that control the budget.

More than 2,100 long-term care spaces have been opened for seniors over the last four years. But on Thursday, Premier Rachel Notley announced her government would add 2,000 more over the next five years.

https://medicinehatnews.com/news/sou...m-care-spaces/


I've been saying for years that a lack of these long term care spaces are clogging up our hospitals causing huge expenses. So it is disingenuous to say they aren't doing anything. This should provide some relief to hospitals and reduce costs by not having patients stuck in the ER and ICU with no bed to receive them(been there...) while costing huge amounts of money.


This is what the PC's neglected to address for decades and should be a good step forward.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Cole436

If Kenny was using this sort of language about a DUI incident that happened in the 80’s which didn’t hurt anyone, then I would agree with you that what was said was enough. However he bragged about supporting a policy that actively hurt people by tearing them apart from their dying loved ones solely because of his discirimination against the LGBTQ+ community. Just saying “I regret it” isn’t enough, especially if he wants people from the community to vote for him.

How old were you in those times? I can tell you that it was nothing like today. Nothing like today. I'm not saying I agree with any of his actions but that was a totally different time and anyone that didn't live in that period can not associate with it. It's safe to say if he gets in power he's not going to turn the clock back to 1989 and they fully know that any lapses will be political suicide. I can guarantee there's few if any persons that lived in those times that has never once said a racial or homophobic slur and that includes members of the NDP as well as posters here. We all know that we were guilty at one time. I pride myself in being one of the few people I ever grew up around that never said or used the n-word. Never liked it, never used it ever. That said I did use homophobic slurs in the 80's and 90's. That's not me today but I own up to my mistakes.

[Bunk]

Read this. Really read it - I'd be curious what people think of Gerson's point here. It really rang true for me. What is our plan here beyond indignation about the world around us?


Governing this province should be an honour, not an inheritance

‘This is the rage of a province that knows the world is changing around it'

Jen Gerson for CBC News Posted: Mar 22, 2019

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ium%3Dsharebar

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Read this. Really read it - I'd be curious what people think of Gerson's point here. It really rang true for me.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ium%3Dsharebar

It's very well written, stylistically, and I do agree with some of the points about the... questionable... nature of some of the UCP's more headline-grabbing platform planks. I certainly take the point about the rage that people seem to be motivated by in this election.

But this appears to be her central point.

The problem I have with the word "accidental" is that it glosses over the fact that the Progressive Conservatives deserved to lose. Those conservatives had grown entitled, complacent, profoundly lacking in any kind of vision, absent new talent and entirely too comfortably entrenched in power.

This is wrong. Not that they deserved to lose, but that the "accident" somehow ignores that fact. The NDP were elected because they were an alternative to a government that deserved to lose - they happened to be there, so in its haste to get away from the corrupt PCs, Alberta pointed at them. They could have pointed at anyone. That's what's meant by an "accidental government".

I would prefer the term "cutting off your nose to spite your face government" as being more descriptive, but it doesn't roll off the tongue quite as well.

Also, I have an issue with this overriding premise.

The economy is shifting — a global effort is underfoot to reduce our dependence on oil and gas.

Is it, though? A global effort? Because if we were simply signing on to a truly global campaign and doing our proportionate share of carbon footprint reduction I think everyone would be fine with that. The sense is that we're actually getting utterly screwed - it's a tragedy of the commons where we're the only saps who are going without, for the ostensible purpose of "setting a good example" that no one else is paying attention to. Meanwhile, internally, other provinces and certain first nations actors are effectively trying to cheat the system to prevent legal infrastructure from being built - people who are supposed to be on our team are breaking our own rules to shoot us in the foot. Worse still, nothing is being done about it.

Hence the rage. The anger, which is palpable, is about Alberta's perception of manifest unfairness, not some wild flailing-about at the changing realities in a modern world. Demand for oil and gas is going up, not down. The sentiment is reflecting a people who've had various feet on their necks for several years looking for someone to held them remove those feet, and start punching their owners in the face. And to hell with the consequences.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Great and all but doesn't address the biggest issues AHS has.

Actually, I think the biggest issue AHS has is keeping people alive, and this does in fact do that

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Jen Gerson for CBC News Posted: Mar 22, 2019

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ium%3Dsharebar

That was a really good read as an opinion piece. I think it captures the sentiment well of an impending UCP victory.

There's going to be lots of "feel good" moments in the short-term after they win that will be "rah rah, the boys are back in town and it feels good", but the UCP has no long-term plan to fix the real issues, nor do they have control over many of the issues they rally against. The Carbon Tax is, in my opinion, representative of this. They're championing removing it on the first day of office, yet the Federal carbon tax comes into effect on April 1. Show off the first head of the snake to your fans only to hide the 2nd one, one in which they can't control.

I hope they are able to control spending in this province and bring it down somewhat, because that is the only thing they can legitimately claim to have any influence over. And they should stick to that message.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Tyler

You do realize they are building an enormous cancer centre, right?

It's a real thing. Looks like this. Kind of a big deal.

so why are they not pushing this, instead of just making boogie-man posts about Kenney? run on what you've done, if you're the ruling party.

and that doesn't answer anything about the continual lengthening wait times in all aspects of health care.

If we're having a public debate and I ask you what you've done to decrease wait times across the board, especially in light of the fact wait times have increased over the past four years, your answer is "we'll, we're building a cancer centre"?

that's nice, but doesn't answer the question.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

It's very well written, stylistically, and I do agree with some of the points about the... questionable... nature of some of the UCP's more headline-grabbing platform planks. I certainly take the point about the rage that people seem to be motivated by in this election.

But this appears to be her central point.

This is wrong. Not that they deserved to lose, but that the "accident" somehow ignores that fact. The NDP were elected because they were an alternative to a government that deserved to lose - they happened to be there, so in its haste to get away from the corrupt PCs, Alberta pointed at them. They could have pointed at anyone. That's what's meant by an "accidental government".

I would prefer the term "cutting off your nose to spite your face government" as being more descriptive, but it doesn't roll off the tongue quite as well.

Also, I have an issue with this overriding premise.

Is it, though? A global effort? Because if we were simply signing on to a truly global campaign and doing our proportionate share of carbon footprint reduction I think everyone would be fine with that. The sense is that we're actually getting utterly screwed - it's a tragedy of the commons where we're the only saps who are going without, for the ostensible purpose of "setting a good example" that no one else is paying attention to. Meanwhile, internally, other provinces and certain first nations actors are effectively trying to cheat the system to prevent legal infrastructure from being built - people who are supposed to be on our team are breaking our own rules to shoot us in the foot. Worse still, nothing is being done about it.

Hence the rage. The anger, which is palpable, is about Alberta's perception of manifest unfairness, not some wild flailing-about at the changing realities in a modern world. Demand for oil and gas is going up, not down. The sentiment is reflecting a people who've had various feet on their necks for several years looking for someone to held them remove those feet, and start punching their owners in the face. And to hell with the consequences.

Did not virtually every country sign on to the Paris accord, with this exact stated goal? Are there not several multi-billion dollar mega corporations trying to sort out the next frontiers in energy, transportation etc in order to reduce that dependence and the consequences of current trends in emissions?

Is there any doubt that dependence on carbon will be intentionally reduced over the next several decades? Big picture.

That's not to say targeted efforts to hamstring our particular energy production isn't unfair and worthy of indignation and anger. I am angry about that.

But what actually keeps me up at night is the long term - what are we actually doing to prepare for a world that will inevitably need less of our product? What are we doing to be a part of that transition, not only fight against it. Who is talking about this?

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

How old were you in those times? I can tell you that it was nothing like today. Nothing like today. I'm not saying I agree with any of his actions but that was a totally different time and anyone that didn't live in that period can not associate with it. It's safe to say if he gets in power he's not going to turn the clock back to 1989 and they fully know that any lapses will be political suicide. I can guarantee there's few if any persons that lived in those times that has never once said a racial or homophobic slur and that includes members of the NDP as well as posters here. We all know that we were guilty at one time. I pride myself in being one of the few people I ever grew up around that never said or used the n-word. Never liked it, never used it ever. That said I did use homophobic slurs in the 80's and 90's. That's not me today but I own up to my mistakes.

Using homophobic language and using power to enact an anti LGBTQ+ agenda are two very different things. I understand that the world was different in the 80’s, but I don’t believe that means we can just accept the equivalence of an a “aw shucks” as a valid response to some pretty vile actions.

[Ozy_Flame]

Written by Danielle Smith, which is probably the most balance thing I've read from her

Opinion: PC dynasty lives on in 2019 election choices

If Lougheed, I bet you are voting for Notley. If Klein, my guess is you are voting for Kenney. If neither, well there’s a veritable smorgasbord to choose from in the Liberals, Alberta Party, Greens, Freedom Conservatives and even the Alberta Independence Party — which, it will be a surprise to most, is likely to have more candidates than any of the other fringe parties.

But there is no question that the vision of these two iconic past premiers are living on today in the NDP and UCP respectively.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

But this appears to be her central point.

This is wrong. Not that they deserved to lose, but that the "accident" somehow ignores that fact. The NDP were elected because they were an alternative to a government that deserved to lose - they happened to be there, so in its haste to get away from the corrupt PCs, Alberta pointed at them. They could have pointed at anyone. That's what's meant by an "accidental government".

I would prefer the term "cutting off your nose to spite your face government" as being more descriptive, but it doesn't roll off the tongue quite as well.

I think there is some nuance here. I agree with some of what you say here. There was certainly circumstance that led to an unusual election of an NDP government, especially a majority one that emanated from a caucus of 4.

But "accidental" is way too strong a term here and I understand why people take umbrage to it. First, it is pretty explicitly claiming that what Albertans did was NOT purposeful. Were the NDP, at the time, the most sensible alternative? Yes. Did people vote blindly not knowing the kind of government they were about to elect? Absolutely not. Notley presented a competent, largely pragmatic face to that party. Arguably she has governed quite pragmatically.

The second thing is that it play into this assumption of an "natural governing party" or ideology of this place. The PCs took up a huge swath of the spectrum - that's how dynasties function. Lougheed explained this endlessly. It's also the sentiment here in Alberta so many despise about the federal liberals - who we view as arrogantly and overtly expressing that they are the "natural governing party" and any time conservatives come along, it's just us veering off course, temporarily. When Liberal are elected, it's back to the natural order - Central Canadian liberals - real Canadians, not the hinterlands controlling our country. We hate that. But somehow that exact sentiment, about conservatives at home, is okay? That's what this seems to be driving at.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's a dream but it would be nice to see the Alberta party displace the NDP as opposition.

The better dream would be for the AB Party to form the next gov't.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

The better dream would be for the AB Party to form the next gov't.

One dream at a time. Let's not get too greedy.

[Bunk]

Definitely time for a poll - someone want to create a poll thread? Need to do one now, and then a few days out.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Read this. Really read it - I'd be curious what people think of Gerson's point here. It really rang true for me. What is our plan here beyond indignation about the world around us?


Governing this province should be an honour, not an inheritance

‘This is the rage of a province that knows the world is changing around it'

Jen Gerson for CBC News Posted: Mar 22, 2019

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ium%3Dsharebar

I question the statement that the world economy is decreasing its reliance on oil and gas. I don’t think we have seen any evidence that oil and gas demand is dropping. And even if O+G demand does drop off Alberta is well positioned to be a low cost supplier of oil given the high upfront capital investment of CPF facilities and the relatively low (relative to shale) sustaining production costs. So in my opinion current production levels will be maintained in Alberta relatively indefinitely unless a massive technological shift occurs away from oil and gas in developing nations. And even if that massive shift away from oil vehicles occurs the switch to natural gas based power instead of coal should see increasing gas demand as carbon emmissioms are forced to drop.

Either way if Alberta and Canada have their #### together we can be a minor supplier of the worlds enerfy needs going forward. The world is not going to meet any of its Paris goals unless Carbon Capture rescues us.

We don’t have an issue with the global demand for our product. We have a transportation problem.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

That's more or less what I was saying.

And on the poll front, I just tried to post one before realizing that I have no idea how.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

That's more or less what I was saying.

And on the poll front, I just tried to post one before realizing that I have no idea how.

I think the mods need to do it.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by GGG

I question the statement that the world economy is decreasing its reliance on oil and gas. I don’t think we have seen any evidence that oil and gas demand is dropping. And even if O+G demand does drop off Alberta is well positioned to be a low cost supplier of oil given the high upfront capital investment of CPF facilities and the relatively low (relative to shale) sustaining production costs. So in my opinion current production levels will be maintained in Alberta relatively indefinitely unless a massive technological shift occurs away from oil and gas in developing nations. And even if that massive shift away from oil vehicles occurs the switch to natural gas based power instead of coal should see increasing gas demand as carbon emmissioms are forced to drop.

Either way if Alberta and Canada have their #### together we can be a minor supplier of the worlds enerfy needs going forward. The world is not going to meet any of its Paris goals unless Carbon Capture rescues us.

We don’t have an issue with the global demand for our product. We have a transportation problem.

Totally fair. I am curious about the statement about Alberta being well positioned to be a low cost provider. I am not in Oil and Gas, so I don't know much about the long term operating costs after after the capital expansions. One worry I have is, isn't a lot of the jobs about the expansions themselves? Will the jobs recover in places like Calgary, even if Oil recovers and we can get the product exported?