What to do with Brodie and Hamonic this off-season?

[powderjunkie]

I think the decision point on this is halfway through next season. These playoffs and the first half of next season will tell us a lot more about what this team actually is.

Assuming we are in contention again next year, there is nothing wrong with letting both play out the full term of their contract, even if it means losing them for 'nothing' (hell, you might still salvage a mid-round pick for early-access negotiating rights).

Same goes for expansion draft. As long as you're not exposing only one incredibly valuable asset compared to the rest of your exposed list, you do nothing and let the cards fall as they may. Nearly every team will expose a decent, young, #4-5 D-man...I doubt Seattle picks 30 year olds (or 38 year olds - IMO Gio is left exposed) unless they have really, really good contracts

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

He makes 5 million a year, has higher trade value than his on ice performance reflects, and plays the same position as each of Valimaki, Giordano, and Kylington, two of whom are younger than him and appear to be just as capable without the cap hit...

Kyllington is barely five months younger than Hanifin. It is disingenuous of you to insinuate as though there is an unbridgeable chasm of age between them.

I like Hanifin, but he is more expendable as a highly paid LD than any of Brodie/Hamonic/Andersson who each bring unique elements to our right defense. I'm not sure Hanifin brings anything unique to our left side other than more experience than the two other kids. Skating? Kylington is better. Size? Valimaki is bigger. Offense? I don't see his as being significantly better than the other two there either. Defense? Hamonic carries that pair in their zone and that pair has still been our achilles heal in a year where we lead the West because Hanifin misplays many sequences...

This is wrong on several levels. While Hanifin may not be a better skater than Kyllington, nor bigger than Valimaki he does combine qualities in a single player that surpasses both at this point. It is nonsense for you to suggest that he is not "significantly better than the other two." Andersson and Kyllington draw by far the easiest matchups of all three pairs and frequently get buried. That's okay; they are rookies. But the beauty of Hanifin is that while he is not a rookie, he combines a massive amount of NHL experience at the same age as a NHL rookie. For a soon-to-be 22-year-old second-pairing defenseman Hanifin looks damn good.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Kyllington is barely five months younger than Hanifin. It is disingenuous of you to insinuate as though there is an unbridgeable chasm of age between them.


This is wrong on several levels. While Hanifin may not be a better skater than Kyllington, nor bigger than Valimaki he does combine qualities in a single player that surpasses both at this point. It is nonsense for you to suggest that he is not "significantly better than the other two." Andersson and Kyllington draw by far the easiest matchups of all three pairs and frequently get buried. That's okay; they are rookies. But the beauty of Hanifin is that while he is not a rookie, he combines a massive amount of NHL experience at the same age as a NHL rookie. For a soon-to-be 22-year-old second-pairing defenseman Hanifin looks damn good.

Hanifin also gets routinely buried with Andersson. And got routinely buried with Stone. The only partners Hanifin has not been buried with were Hamonic and Brodie.

Yes, Hanifin plays second pair, but it's pretty clear his pair is driven by his partner. Let's not insunate Hanifin playing on a second pair means he is driving a second pair.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Hanifin also gets routinely buried with Andersson. And got routinely buried with Stone. The only partners Hanifin has not been buried with were Hamonic and Brodie.

Yes, Hanifin plays second pair, but it's pretty clear his pair is driven by his partner. Let's not insunate Hanifin playing on a second pair means he is driving a second pair.

Hanifin is 3rd on Flames in avarage ice time per game, behind only Giordano and Brodie.
This is routinely buried?

Please stop routinely making #### up and presenting it as fact. Maybe you do actually believe some of what you say. I doubt it though and I hope no one else does either.

The Flames have 3 fantastic looking rookie defenseman. I hope one or more become as good as the 21 year old Hanifin is today. And I think they can.

[Funkhouser]

I think you try to extend both Brodie and Hamonic for reasonable term/dollars (4 yrs, ~5M per). We keep whoever is willing to sign.

Whoever doesn't re-sign this summer is dealt for futures/picks.
If both re-sign, then we need to look at dealing one of Hanifin or Kylington. Based on value, I agree with GranteedEV that perhaps Hanifin is the one to move as Valimaki could slide into his role and he would bring back a significant haul.
_________________________

So if both re-sign, we are looking at:
Gio Brodie
Valimaki Hamonic
Kylington Anderson
Stone

If only one re-sign, we are looking at:
Gio Brodie/Anderson
Hanifin Hamonic/Anderson
Kylington Valimaki
Stone

[devo22]

^ Hanifin is Gios heir apparent and signed long-term to a really good deal. There's zero chance they'll move him, and rightfully so.

In an ideal world, they find a taker for Stone this summer and keep both of Brodie and Hamonic next year (probably only possible if they deal Frolik too). Then re-sign Hamonic and replace Brodie from within (Rasmus).

[Vinny01]

Could Hanifin play the right side? What about giving him a look with Gio next year on the top pair?

Trade Brodie for futures and have the following 6D

Gio-Hanifin
Valimaki-Hamonic
Kylington-Andersson
Cheap vet

We would still need to dump the Stone contract imo.

I am really starting to be of the belief we should go for it this year and recoup the picks in the summer while creating more cap flexibility.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by devo22

^ Hanifin is Gios heir apparent and signed long-term to a really good deal. There's zero chance they'll move him, and rightfully so.

In an ideal world, they find a taker for Stone this summer and keep both of Brodie and Hamonic next year (probably only possible if they deal Frolik too). Then re-sign Hamonic and replace Brodie from within (Rasmus).

You would rather Brodie walk for nothing than try and recoup assets for him?

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

You would rather Brodie walk for nothing than try and recoup assets for him?

I would rather make a run with Brodie than just trade him for futures. I feel the Flames have a legitimate shot at doing damage in the playoffs while Johnny is under this contract, so why trade a top defenseman? Unless it's a hockey trade of course.

If they aren't as good next season they can still trade him at the deadline. But yeah, I wouldn't trade him this summer just for the sake of it.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

You would rather Brodie walk for nothing than try and recoup assets for him?

Having him in the lineup isn’t “walking for nothing”.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

You would rather Brodie walk for nothing than try and recoup assets for him?

Our first window is around Gaudreau’s contract.

There is no way we should weaken our D for futures before Gaudreau is UFA. Each year we need to maximize the opportunity at the expense of the future.

So sign both this summer then trade as required when cap space comes up. If you can’t sign both this summer ten you have to ride them next year because these next few years are our best chance at a cup.

The only caveat is if you could trade Brodie for the equivalent player at forward but that doesn’t address your contract concerns as that player likely only has a year left as well.

[Vinny01]

Losing Brodie for nothing after his contract expires or signing him AND Hamomicnlong term is how you become a team like the Kings/Ducks/Hawks where we would have so much money and cap tied up in 30+ players. Treliving has committed big money to Neal, Gio and Backs for their 30-35 (or in Gios case 33-39) ages. We have solid blue liners coming up with breakout potential. We also are faced with a cap crunch this summer and could be in tough to get Tkachuk signed, improve the goalie, and fill out the roster.

If they trade a 1st for a rental this year that would be 2 straight years without a 1st, and 2nd and possibly 3rd if they move that for a rental as well. Our prospect pool is already at the bottom of the league.

I want this team to be competitive for longer than the 3 years left on Johnny’s deal. Landing a pick in the top half of the draft and freeing up the $4.65M of Brodie is just smart asset management in my opinion. To me this isn’t trading Backlund which would cripple our center depth. I believe the Flames have solid depth on the blueline with 4 of their 6 still having sky high ceilings.

We want to accelerate the development of Hanifin? Stick him with Gio and watch him become elite.

It is funny that this board wanted to blast Brodie to the sun last season and I was one of the posters that really wanted to move Dougie. Now a year later I want to move Brodie for assets and many want him signed. Just like Dougie though I think Brodie is a very good player but I think the franchise can afford to move on and it would be in the best interest of the team. The Flames spent a lot of futures and pick capital prior to actually becoming a contender so they have very little in futures to move now. I think the loss of Brodie would keep them contenders but allow them to keep the cupboard full and not comepletely handcuff themselves cap wise

[Scroopy Noopers]

^ did you just open by naming teams with cap era cup success?

[cannon7]

Brodie's value is likely going to be at an all-time high at season's end. Hamonic has played better this season, but is still banged up and his stat line is still uninspiring. I don't think we have anyone other than Brodie that can step in alongside Giordano and bring the same chemistry. Andersson at some point, maybe. But by then Giordano will be quite long in the tooth, so really the question is: what is our top-pairing if Giordano declines?

Would like to see Brodie on Hanafin's right-side more, to see if that pairing can still play at a level close to Giordano-Brodie. If so, then I re-sign Brodie. If not, then I consider shopping him for max return.

With AOM in the wings and playing very well in Stockton, I think Stone can be had for a song in the offseason. Would keep him through the playoff run, though, as he's still a very capable bottom-six.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

^ did you just open by naming teams with cap era cup success?

Teams that are toiling at the bottom today because of the contracts they signed after their success. The flames haven’t even had success and they could be at risk of doing the same thing.

I look at the Bruins as a team that was able to move on from Lucic and Hamilton which helped rebuild on the fly thanks to some good drafting.

[GioforPM]

Brodie's negotiations with Treliving would be pretty interesting.

Brodie: I had a great year.
Tre: But not the two or three years before.
Brodie: But now that I'm with Gio and on the right I'm great.
Tre: So you are saying you have to be on this team or one with a player like Gio and an opening on the right side for a lefty to play well.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Brodie's negotiations with Treliving would be pretty interesting.

Brodie: I had a great year.
Tre: But not the two or three years before.
Brodie: But now that I'm with Gio and on the right I'm great.
Tre: So you are saying you have to be on this team or one with a player like Gio and an opening on the right side for a lefty to play well.

I would imagine that Giordano's opinion of Brodie will be a factor in this contract negotiation.

Giordano: "I was the best defenseman in the entire League in 2014–15 playing with Brodie, and again this year when Brodie and me were put back together."

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Teams that are toiling at the bottom today because of the contracts they signed after their success. The flames haven’t even had success and they could be at risk of doing the same thing.

I look at the Bruins as a team that was able to move on from Lucic and Hamilton which helped rebuild on the fly thanks to some good drafting.

Yeah they definitely had to pay for their success. But I’d be okay with winning 2 cups with Gaudreau and then being a mid pack team for a few years.

Strike while the iron is hot. And I think Brodie and Hamonic help you do that.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I would imagine that Giordano's opinion of Brodie will be a factor in this contract negotiation.

Really? Do you think Treliving would consult him on this? If so, I'd take it with a grain of salt. What's Gio going to say - he's terrible without me? Anyone is great with me?

Peters, and, I suspect, Huska might be a major factor though.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by cannon7

With AOM in the wings and playing very well in Stockton, I think Stone can be had for a song in the offseason. Would keep him through the playoff run, though, as he's still a very capable bottom-six.

AOM is not even on an NHL contract right now. I doubt he's a factor going forward when it comes to those decisions.