Iggy didn't win anything either...Johnny is certainly ahead of his pace
Well yes, he has. Western Conference, division title, scoring title, MVP.
It took Iggy a good 15 years to be considered one of the greatest Flames. Johnny is not already one of the greatest after only 4.5 seasons.
Is Monahan (my current favorite Flame) considered one of the greats? He's only like 15 points behind Johnny.
Let's wait till the dust settles on their careers as Flames before this conversation happens. Let's enjoy this potentially magical season for what it is.
FWIW, I think Johnny will become one of the greats of this franchise. But he's not there yet, and that is totally fine.
In all seriousness, based on longevity and point totals, I'm not even sure I'd rank Gaudreau in the top 10. He is young, he's been here for 4 1/2 years, and this team has had some long-term, seriously productive players.
I think Iginla is #1, without a doubt. The guy played 1,273 games including playoffs for this franchise. There's no way he's not #1. He is undoubtedly a Hall of Fame player and what he's done for this franchise will likely never be surpassed.
Fleury is #2. He scored 830 points, won a Stanley Cup, and was top 5 in Hart Trophy voting twice while he was in Calgary. I think it is realistic that by the end of Gaudreau's career, he could eclipse Fleury. But he is still a long way off. Fleury was this team's heart and soul for 10 years. There's a reason no one has worn 14 since he left.
After those two guys (and MacInnis, but the question was about forwards), there's a huge gap.
The question is where does he rank today, so honestly in his 4 1/2 seasons with the Flames he has done nothing much of significance. He's shown flashes of greatness but if he were traded or quit hockey tomorrow we would not talk about him 20 years from now as one of the greatest Flames of all time. I think Mikael Backlund would rank higher than him, honestly.
Backlund - 583 games played, 294 points, 15 playoff games
Gaudreau - 356 games played, 352 points, 15 playoff games
Sure, the point totals are there for Gaudreau but if he retired tomorrow he would be soon forgotten.
In order to be ranked highly, Gaudreau has to stay, and has to produce, for a long period of time. If this is what he is now and he flirts with 100 points a year and stays here through his prime and into his early 30's, then we can have this conversation.
His closest career comparables on Hockey-Reference are Filip Forsberg, Evgeny Kuznetsov, Mike Hoffman... Great players? Sure, maybe. Iginla & Fleury level? No.
I love Backs, but let's be real here. Johnny is a much better scorer than him. His worst scoring season so far (61 pts) is higher than what Backs will likely ever score in a season
Well yes, he has. Western Conference, division title, scoring title, MVP.
It took Iggy a good 15 years to be considered one of the greatest Flames. Johnny is not already one of the greatest after only 4.5 seasons.
Is Monahan (my current favorite Flame) considered one of the greats? He's only like 15 points behind Johnny.
Let's wait till the dust settles on their careers as Flames before this conversation happens. Let's enjoy this potentially magical season for what it is.
FWIW, I think Johnny will become one of the greats of this franchise. But he's not there yet, and that is totally fine.
He will need to resign here for that conversation to take off. I’m not convinced right now that he will. The team’s success between now and then will be a determining factor in how that plays out. If we do nothing, I think his desire to play back out east in his UFA years could lead to him leaving.
In all seriousness, based on longevity and point totals, I'm not even sure I'd rank Gaudreau in the top 10. He is young, he's been here for 4 1/2 years, and this team has had some long-term, seriously productive players.
I think Iginla is #1, without a doubt. The guy played 1,273 games including playoffs for this franchise. There's no way he's not #1. He is undoubtedly a Hall of Fame player and what he's done for this franchise will likely never be surpassed.
Fleury is #2. He scored 830 points, won a Stanley Cup, and was top 5 in Hart Trophy voting twice while he was in Calgary. I think it is realistic that by the end of Gaudreau's career, he could eclipse Fleury. But he is still a long way off. Fleury was this team's heart and soul for 10 years. There's a reason no one has worn 14 since he left.
After those two guys (and MacInnis, but the question was about forwards), there's a huge gap.
The question is where does he rank today, so honestly in his 4 1/2 seasons with the Flames he has done nothing much of significance. He's shown flashes of greatness but if he were traded or quit hockey tomorrow we would not talk about him 20 years from now as one of the greatest Flames of all time. I think Mikael Backlund would rank higher than him, honestly.
Backlund - 583 games played, 294 points, 15 playoff games
Gaudreau - 356 games played, 352 points, 15 playoff games
Sure, the point totals are there for Gaudreau but if he retired tomorrow he would be soon forgotten.
In order to be ranked highly, Gaudreau has to stay, and has to produce, for a long period of time. If this is what he is now and he flirts with 100 points a year and stays here through his prime and into his early 30's, then we can have this conversation.
His closest career comparables on Hockey-Reference are Filip Forsberg, Evgeny Kuznetsov, Mike Hoffman... Great players? Sure, maybe. Iginla & Fleury level? No.
Well yes, he has. Western Conference, division title, scoring title, MVP.
It took Iggy a good 15 years to be considered one of the greatest Flames. Johnny is not already one of the greatest after only 4.5 seasons.
Is Monahan (my current favorite Flame) considered one of the greats? He's only like 15 points behind Johnny.
Let's wait till the dust settles on their careers as Flames before this conversation happens. Let's enjoy this potentially magical season for what it is.
FWIW, I think Johnny will become one of the greats of this franchise. But he's not there yet, and that is totally fine.
When did Iggy win MVP? division title and western title don't mean much to me.
Scoring title I will give you but JG will likely pass Iggy's single season high this year.
I'm old enough to have watched the entire careers of Theo and Iginla, and Johnny isn't there yet. If you were around to watch what those two did in their prime, you would know that what they did was equally if not greater that what Johnny is doing now.
Theo was unreal in a time where the little guys didn't have a chance. It just didn't make sense that he was able to survive out there, nevermind dominate the game and put up the points he did.
Iggy in his prime owned the game. Sure his point totals where lower for an MVP, but he put up the points in 03 while dragging around guys like Pronger and Hatcher on his back. Iggy was a one man wrecking ball and did it without anyone to support him.
I want to put Johnny up there behind them, but right now he's in the mix with Roberts, Nieuwy, Mullen and Lanny. They all were amazing, but played on a stacked team and didn't have the length of GP with the Flames. Right now I think we all need to hope Johnny stays long term and then we can anoint him up with Iggy and Theo.
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Okay people......... Backlund? I had to re-read those posts to figure out if people were joking.
And then Huselius as one of the top 3 most talented in franchise history? What?
Jesus. Anyway, but what this thread does reveal, again, quite clearly and as has been mentioned so many times in the past- is that it’s a disgrace to the Flames franchise to not have properly retired Fleury.
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Okay people......... Backlund? I had to re-read those posts to figure out if people were joking.
And then Huselius as one of the top 3 most talented in franchise history? What?
Jesus. Anyway, but what this thread does reveal, again, quite clearly and as has been mentioned so many times in the past- is that it’s a disgrace to the Flames franchise to not have properly retired Fleury.
Agreed. But if the reception of a tweet from Frolik’s agent by CP shows us anything, it is that biting the hand that feeds you doesn’t necessarily go over well.
And with how often CP supports the organization, no question it is controversial.
Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
The problem with this is comparing eras and the age of the guy rating them.
If you're under the age of 40 you can't possibly have an opinion on this, or your dad has a super VHS collection of many Ed Whalen called games.
If you're over 40 you have eye test, but you also are likely falling victim to nostalgia and with that are over valuing previous era players.
My first VHS player cost me $750 and it was top of the line. Yesterday I saw the same machine in a Sally Ann store for $2.00 which made me feel really old
It's the era that players played in and the style of play that makes it to make a list. Like, how would have Nilsson faired if he was played in the era of the Broad Street bullies where goon hockey and heavy hitting was a big part of the game at time. The same with Gaudreau. Their points would have been greatly diminished.
Okay people......... Backlund? I had to re-read those posts to figure out if people were joking.
And then Huselius as one of the top 3 most talented in franchise history? What?
Jesus. Anyway, but what this thread does reveal, again, quite clearly and as has been mentioned so many times in the past- is that it’s a disgrace to the Flames franchise to not have properly retired Fleury.
TFW you have over a PPG career, Stanley Cup, Olympic Gold, and you're not in the HoF. And nobody on your franchise will ever touch your number but the organization still doesn't retire it. But they do retire Vernon.
