I agree, and that's also where 'soft' guys can show their moxie. Play hard on the Powerplay. Take command of the puck. Shoot to score. Be physical in keeping possession.
No one on the Flames seemed to want the puck on that ensuing powerplay.
I've never played hockey, but it sure seems to me the best deterrent is to score, or be a legitimate threat to score. I doubt having to fight instilled an ounce of regret or concern to Gudbranson. But had he had to skate back to the bench as the Flames celebrated a PPG, I bet the regret would have registered.
Last edited by Flames Fan, Ph.D.; 10-04-2018 at 04:56 PM.
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I've never played hockey, but it sure seems to me the best deterrent is to score, or be a legitimate threat to score. I doubt having to fight instilled an ounce of regret or concern to Gudbranson. But had he had to skate back to the bench as the Flames celebrated a PP, I bet the regret would have registered.
I've never fought an NHL player, but I can imagine it's a somewhat harrowing experience every time, no matter how large you are. Unless you're some Big Ern type who just loves the challenge of fighting, I can't imagine many guys are looking to dance twice in one evening.
Gudbranson didn't run around the rest of the game. I'd say the fight did ay least some of what it was supposed to.
You fight Gudbranson. The right person on the roster fought Gudbranson.
This is what fighting looks like when it's actually 'part of the game'. A guy who can play does something that crosses a line, and then fights another guy who can play.
Win the fight.
Winning a fight has a lot of randomness to it.
So the fact that somehow people think that you need an enforcer to "pay back" for something bad a player did is just so idiotic and pointless.
I'm sorry but this entire thing is just proof of how dumb this all is.
Flames lost the game, lost a player. Wow sure is good that fighting is still in the game because....why?
Dumb.
F'n Dumb.
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Winning a fight has a lot of randomness to it.
So the fact that somehow people think that you need an enforcer to "pay back" for something bad a player did is just so idiotic and pointless.
I'm sorry but this entire thing is just proof of how dumb this all is.
Flames lost the game, lost a player. Wow sure is good that fighting is still in the game because....why?
Dumb.
F'n Dumb.
I think fighting should be gone from the game.
An effective powerplay and dialing up your own (legal) physical game is how a team should respond to things like last night.
Winning a fight has a lot of randomness to it.
So the fact that somehow people think that you need an enforcer to "pay back" for something bad a player did is just so idiotic and pointless.
I'm sorry but this entire thing is just proof of how dumb this all is.
Flames lost the game, lost a player. Wow sure is good that fighting is still in the game because....why?
Dumb.
F'n Dumb.
It’s because people have this weird nostalgic view of the 70s and 80s being cleaner hockey that didn’t have cheap shots because you had goons to protect people.
When in reality If you go back and watch those games the league was way dirtier than it is today. Blatant elbows to the head, stick work that now makes you cringe, and just dirty hockey all around.
But then people go about talking about “Old Time Hockey” and “The Code” like it was anything more than a rose tinted glasses view of the past.
Dirty hits happen with a goon or not and fighting has never worked as a deterrent to dirty hits no matter how much people want to hold on to a past that never actually existed.
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I've never fought an NHL player, but I can imagine it's a somewhat harrowing experience every time, no matter how large you are. Unless you're some Big Ern type who just loves the challenge of fighting, I can't imagine many guys are looking to dance twice in one evening.
Gudbranson didn't run around the rest of the game. I'd say the fight did ay least some of what it was supposed to.
I admit I don't understand this. I see 2 scenarios for the deterrent:
1) The deterrent being on the ice somehow stops Gudbranson from hitting Dube.
2) The deterrent being on the ice somehow stops Gudbranson from hitting another Flame they way he hit Dube because, well, he and another guy were grabbing jerseys for 25 seconds.
The first scenario is a fantasy. Hits like Gudbranson's are primarily in the heat of the moment rather than some type of "I can drop this guy from the blindside right now this split second because the Flames dressed a bunch of weaklings..." And the guys who deliberately do the dirty type of work (Marchand, Perry, Wilson) don't care who is on the ice.
As for the second scenario: the damage is already done. The fight is perfunctory. A 25 second fight doesn't give the other team an impression that your team is tough and not to be messed with. Case in point: no team has messed / mocked / disrespected the Flames more than the Ducks in the last decade. We've dressed goons against them plenty of times. Why have they never stopped? Answer is simple: We don't score on the power plays and they beat us regularly, so they fear nothing.
It's not the goon.
Edit: I think people have this fictional perception that after Gudbranson hits Dube, our goon is going to epically tune up Gudbranson, leave him as a crumpled and repentant heap on the ice, and never touch another Flame again. Not going to happen.
Last edited by Flames Fan, Ph.D.; 10-04-2018 at 05:28 PM.
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Feels like the solution is pretty easy. That kind of hit needs to be an automatic major and game misconduct. Multiple instances lead to suspensions. Done and done.
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Feels like the solution is pretty easy. That kind of hit needs to be an automatic major and game misconduct. Multiple instances lead to suspensions. Done and done.
Agree with this. It's easily viewable by Toronto at the moment.
Hamonic got ejected last year. Gudbranson should have been too.
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The idea that a fight would somehow change how Gudbranson was playing is absurd. The game moves too fast for him to alter his behavior in real time because he's rationalizing in his head that he might have to fight.
That's just another reason why fighting is so idiotic. The idea that somehow it holds players accountable, when we see over and over and over again the same crap happen from the same dirty players. And it always has.
It is myth. All of it.
The ONLY way you attach REAL consequences is when you start throwing players out of the game for hits like that and suspending them. Even then though we see players like Tom Wilson struggle to alter their games. But at least for 20 games the league can do without that clown.
And maybe next time he does something like it he will be gone for 40.
This crap is so deeply embedded into the culture of the game that it's going to take real work and a committed approach by the league and the NHLPA (yeah right) to change things.
But does anyone like the fact that our great rookie had his bell rung last night? Is that hockey? Or how about that awesome moment when our second pairing dman felt he had to fight (because of "code") and broke his jaw.
Yeah that was f'n awesome wasn't it.
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Winning a fight has a lot of randomness to it.
So the fact that somehow people think that you need an enforcer to "pay back" for something bad a player did is just so idiotic and pointless.
I'm sorry but this entire thing is just proof of how dumb this all is.
Flames lost the game, lost a player. Wow sure is good that fighting is still in the game because....why?
Dumb.
F'n Dumb.
Fighting being or not being in the game doesn't change the fact that Dube gets hit. It doesn't change the fact that Dube is looking into his own zone for at least a full three seconds without minding his surroundings. It's a violent game.
I actually don't think fighting should still be in the sport. Listening to Dan Carcillo talk about his issues post-career, watching all these guys die young, it's not worth it. I don't care about the intangibles - call the penalty and get on with the game. Just because it feels cathartic doesn't mean it's good.
I will fully admit that I appreciated few things as much as when Iginla would square up with another player, take off his helmet, and go to work.
The league could remove much of what ails it with two months of stringent officiating to set new standards. IE don't hit people in the head. Call the retaliatory slashes. Minimize stick work.
My point was simply that, in a world without enforcers, this is what fighting looks like. And we can lament that Hamonic got hurt all we want, but if you don't have a dedicated face puncher, someone else is gonna get punched in the face. And you may not like who it is.
Gudbranson was a non-factor the rest of the game. Maybe the fight's the reason for that. Maybe not. But as long as fighting is legal, you fight Gudbranson. And if you're not going to win, try not to lose in a demoralizing fashion.
In 2005-06, the division champion Flames lost a playoff series to the Ducks. People lament the post Huselius hit, but Calgary lost the series right here:
It can't be a good feeling to see your teammate get dropped. I would attribute the disjointed start to the Hamonic loss as much as anything.
I really hope we avoid that and go out and punish all the skilled players on the nucks. This is over his treatment of our young Dube. I'd love to see Neal put petterson ot dahlin out for 5/10 games.
And this is an attitude I hate. Wanting other players injured in revenge, instead of wanting cheap shots out of the game. Glad it's an opinion that's also slowly going away over time.
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I've never fought an NHL player, but I can imagine it's a somewhat harrowing experience every time, no matter how large you are. Unless you're some Big Ern type who just loves the challenge of fighting, I can't imagine many guys are looking to dance twice in one evening.
Gudbranson didn't run around the rest of the game. I'd say the fight did ay least some of what it was supposed to.
well for one they were on the penalty kill for 14 minutes and he was a big part of the pkers. And why would he be running around if they had the lead?
Good on Hammer for stepping up for his teammates, they recognize it and respect it. Guys like Gudbrandson than can police but still play a shift are valuable much like Engelland was, guys love to play on teams with those type of players. League is getting way to soft soon every player is going to be a QB and any contact will be a penalty
Fighting is fine, hamonic is a grown man who willingly entered a fight.
Is it unfortunate that he is hurt because of it? Sure
But would he have not done it knowing the consequences? Doubtful
Let adults make their own decisions, we don’t need to take fighting out of the game, cant always be protecting everyone from all the possible consequences of their actions. And in my eyes fighting in hockey serves a purpose of momentum and gets your teammates fired up (or should)
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And this is an attitude I hate. Wanting other players injured in revenge, instead of wanting cheap shots out of the game. Glad it's an opinion that's also slowly going away over time.
Well no need to go out try to hurt them, but I wouldn't mind if the Flames finished a few more checks on them. Evander Kane is one of the guys that wouldn't be too phased when Bennett hit him the way he did. However there's plenty of guys who would shrink away. I can think of at least one player on the Canucks in particular...
Fighting is fine, hamonic is a grown man who willingly entered a fight.
Is it unfortunate that he is hurt because of it? Sure
But would he have not done it knowing the consequences? Doubtful
Let adults make their own decisions, we don’t need to take fighting out of the game, cant always be protecting everyone from all the possible consequences of their actions. And in my eyes fighting in hockey serves a purpose of momentum and gets your teammates fired up (or should)
Are there Tom Wilsons, Zac Rinaldos, and Raffi Torres types in other sports? It all depends on the officiating of that sport. The people who throw headshots like that, or play extremely dirty, are they held accountable in any way to the point of being a deterrent by the officiating in a vacuum?
I guarantee you Travis Hamonic was thinking something along these lines too.
Part of me wants to stay involved in the game, and part of me wants to get revenge.
I’m sitting on the bench thinking, “Okay, I could let this go, but what happens when the rest of the league sees that hit and we don’t do anything about it?”
And so he did something about it. Fearlessless even though he knew he'd probably get clocked. It was a pretty shameful thing of Gudbranson to do, going after the rookie. Everyone watching knew it. But you still have to answer the bell, to show to the league that the team will not let something like this go unanswered.
Why did Operation Paul Bunyan happen? To show to the entire world that "Hey, you don't #### with our guys."
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