Ontario Election thread

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Everyone is always quick to jump on the negatives of any politician, yet agree that that "ALL" are unworthy or untrustful.
Maybe what we should try to do is look at the positives, the accomplishments, and compare those to previous parties. It might start a new trend.
Yes Kathleen has had issues, there is no doubt about it. She was also handed a big pile of feces to start, and had a very hard downturn in the middle of her run. Nothing anyone could have done to change those things.

What are her positives?
- Clean energy development. It HAD to happen, even though it came at a cost. Other Provinces will be playing catch up in the near future.
- She held back tax increases. The financial crisis really put the economy in a tough spot yet she managed to hold strong.
- Education support. Free post secondary tuition for kids whose families earn <$50,000. That = 235,000 kids who took advantage of this that may have otherwise not attended post secondary school.
- Free meds for those under 25 and over 65.
- $15/hr min wage. It IS a good thing.
- Investments in health have increased under Wynne.
- Beer in grocery stores LOL.
- Transit investments have been huge.

Lots of positives...and a bunch of negatives. We tend to get lost in the waves.

The Negatives way outway the positives.


The Hydro One deal.


Her party has been investigated at least 5 times by the OPP.


The massive increase of the provincial debt.


The massive loss of manufacturing jobs.


spending millions of tax payer dollars on partisan liberal ads


the Ring of Fire boondoogle


The Ehealth boondoogle


Big tax hikes on licensing and permit fees not to mention the health tax


The Gas Plant scandal


Wynne is a force of destruction, incompetence and corruption, she's like some kind of super villain.


Even Justin who helped her out in the last election is basically like "Woah lady, Your on your own" while slowly raising his hands and backing out of the room "Who are you again strange lady"

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The salaries that smart, socially-fluent people can earn in today's economy makes a career in politics unattractive in comparison. You're asking someone in the managerial class to basically take a 50-90 per cent pay cut.

More than that, though, is the unrelenting media attention and scrutiny politicians today are subject to. Every incident in your history pored over. Every comment scrutinized for wrong-think or insensitivity. Public vilification by increasingly partisan voters and media no matter what you do.

I'm actually surprised any sane person pursues high public office.

Yeah when you consider that most people want politicians with graduate level or higher education and/or someone who's already been successful in the private sector, you've already ruled out pretty big segment of the population. Combine that with the costs of running a campaign and, as you mentioned, the scrutiny over anything you've ever done and it's just not worth it to most people.

I've considered getting involved in local politics out here because I'm quite sick of the far-left demagougery, but I know there's probably some garbage posts I've made on here, Facebook, Twitter, etc., especially going back to when I was in my late teens or early 20s that I really have no desire to revisit if they were dragged out in public. Not to mention my propensity for being a lush. It's quite the deterrent.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Yeah when you consider that most people want politicians with graduate level or higher education and/or someone who's already been successful in the private sector, you've already ruled out pretty big segment of the population. Combine that with the costs of running a campaign and, as you mentioned, the scrutiny over anything you've ever done and it's just not worth it to most people.

I've considered getting involved in local politics out here because I'm quite sick of the far-left demagougery, but I know there's probably some garbage posts I've made on here, Facebook, Twitter, etc., especially going back to when I was in my late teens or early 20s that I really have no desire to revisit if they were dragged out in public. Not to mention my propensity for being a lush. It's quite the deterrent.

I'd totally work on your campaign as director of intimidation and dirty tricks.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Yeah when you consider that most people want politicians with graduate level or higher education and/or someone who's already been successful in the private sector, you've already ruled out pretty big segment of the population. Combine that with the costs of running a campaign and, as you mentioned, the scrutiny over anything you've ever done and it's just not worth it to most people.

I've considered getting involved in local politics out here because I'm quite sick of the far-left demagougery, but I know there's probably some garbage posts I've made on here, Facebook, Twitter, etc., especially going back to when I was in my late teens or early 20s that I really have no desire to revisit if they were dragged out in public. Not to mention my propensity for being a lush. It's quite the deterrent.

Almost everyone who posts about political issues in this forum has rendered themselves unelectable to do a strongly-held opinion or insensitive comment. For younger citizens who have been on social media since their teens it's even worse.

[Cheese]

answers below...

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The Negatives way outway the positives.


The Hydro One deal.
Wynne is using approximately four billion dollars of the nine billion dollars which the shares were sold for to pay off government debt before the next election, and the other 5 billion dollars to the Trillium Trust to improve transit lines and to build infrastructure.

Her party has been investigated at least 5 times by the OPP.
hmmmm...sounds like the same thing happened in Alberta. The RCMP looked into the PCs as well. I think this happens all the time when a party is in p[ower for a lengthy period of time.

The massive increase of the provincial debt.
Again, the downturn in the economy which ended up causing thousands of job losses and business closures especially in the auto industry did not help. She had to spend to bring back business and help the economy, which is now robust.
The 2016 budget projected $133.9 billion in spending resulting in a deficit of $4.3 billion for 2016–17, with a return to a balanced budget in 2017–18

About 62 per cent of the increase in net debt from 2008-09 to 2016-17 was due to the deficit. The remaining net debt increase was a result of investments in capital assets. Balanced budgets from 2017-18 onwards will ensure that increases in net debt will be limited to net investments in capital assets such as roads, bridges, hospitals and schools. The government’s investments in capital assets will work to increase economic growth and help support GDP growing more quickly than debt, thereby helping the government achieve its net debt‐to‐GDP targets.

The massive loss of manufacturing jobs.
I dont think you can blame this on any Canadian party or political leader.

spending millions of tax payer dollars on partisan liberal ads
Serious? All parties in power do this.I also dont agree with it and think there should be a law against it. http://nationalpost.com/news/politic...ting-canadians

the Ring of Fire boondoogle
I wont disagree with you, however she at least tried to find a solution that every other Premier ignored, inc the PCs. There needs to be a solution.

The Ehealth boondoogle
Yup it was, although this was a Dalton McGuinty issue, not Wynne.

Big tax hikes on licensing and permit fees not to mention the health tax
Yup, mostly user fees , where fees collectred go back to fixing the infrastructure that were largely ignored by PC governments because all they could think to do was cut cut cut. Hiway infrastructure costs in Ontario in 16/17 was 2.7 Billion dollars. I really dont hear anyone here complain about these.

The Gas Plant scandal
The Ontario power plant scandal (also called the gas plants scandal) relates to the decisions by the Liberal government to cancel the construction of two natural gas power plants: one in Mississauga and another in Oakville. Importantly, members of the PC Party as well as the NDP also voted to cancel the power plant. The Mississauga cancellation was made as a late campaign promise in the 2011 general election.

Wynne is a force of destruction, incompetence and corruption, she's like some kind of super villain.
Rachel Notley, Jim Prentice, Alsion Redfotrd, Ed Stelmach. Pick your poison.

Even Justin who helped her out in the last election is basically like "Woah lady, Your on your own" while slowly raising his hands and backing out of the room "Who are you again strange lady"
LOL.

[Cheese]

answers below...

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The Negatives way outway the positives.


The Hydro One deal.
Wynne is using approximately four billion dollars of the nine billion dollars which the shares were sold for to pay off government debt before the next election, and the other 5 billion dollars to the Trillium Trust to improve transit lines and to build infrastructure.

Her party has been investigated at least 5 times by the OPP.
hmmmm...sounds like the same thing happened in Alberta. The RCMP looked into the PCs as well. I think this happens all the time when a party is in p[ower for a lengthy period of time.

The massive increase of the provincial debt.
Again, the downturn in the economy which ended up causing thousands of job losses and business closures especially in the auto industry did not help. She had to spend to bring back business and help the economy, which is now robust.
The 2016 budget projected $133.9 billion in spending resulting in a deficit of $4.3 billion for 2016–17, with a return to a balanced budget in 2017–18

About 62 per cent of the increase in net debt from 2008-09 to 2016-17 was due to the deficit. The remaining net debt increase was a result of investments in capital assets. Balanced budgets from 2017-18 onwards will ensure that increases in net debt will be limited to net investments in capital assets such as roads, bridges, hospitals and schools. The government’s investments in capital assets will work to increase economic growth and help support GDP growing more quickly than debt, thereby helping the government achieve its net debt‐to‐GDP targets.

The massive loss of manufacturing jobs.
I dont think you can blame this on any Canadian party or political leader.

spending millions of tax payer dollars on partisan liberal ads
Serious? All parties in power do this.I also dont agree with it and think there should be a law against it. http://nationalpost.com/news/politic...ting-canadians

the Ring of Fire boondoogle
I wont disagree with you, however she at least tried to find a solution that every other Premier ignored, inc the PCs. There needs to be a solution.

The Ehealth boondoogle
Yup it was, although this was a Dalton McGuinty issue, not Wynne.

Big tax hikes on licensing and permit fees not to mention the health tax
Yup, mostly user fees , where fees collectred go back to fixing the infrastructure that were largely ignored by PC governments because all they could think to do was cut cut cut. Hiway infrastructure costs in Ontario in 16/17 was 2.7 Billion dollars. I really dont hear anyone here complain about these.

The Gas Plant scandal
The Ontario power plant scandal (also called the gas plants scandal) relates to the decisions by the Liberal government to cancel the construction of two natural gas power plants: one in Mississauga and another in Oakville. Importantly, members of the PC Party as well as the NDP also voted to cancel the power plant. The Mississauga cancellation was made as a late campaign promise in the 2011 general election.

Wynne is a force of destruction, incompetence and corruption, she's like some kind of super villain.
Rachel Notley, Jim Prentice, Alsion Redfotrd, Ed Stelmach. Pick your poison.

Even Justin who helped her out in the last election is basically like "Woah lady, Your on your own" while slowly raising his hands and backing out of the room "Who are you again strange lady"
LOL.

[CaptainCrunch]

in terms of running for politics.


I cold do the Simpsons answer and say - "No way man, I'd never get elected man, because I'm just to real".


Or I could be honest and say that I don't have the temperament for the job, and I'm just not a very nice person.


Its funny, I have a friend that's worked in the background in politics running campaigns, etc. We've told her that she should take that final leap and actually run. I mean it could be fun and she could be good. She's very smart, and she's pretty saavy politics wise.


So I'm going to her campaign kick off tonight to support her.


But I couldn't do it, my speeches would sound like something from 1984

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I wonder if the closer race according to polls actually favours the tories in terms of turnout given that they won't consider it a fait accompli. But on the other hand, it might encourage otherwise discouraged Liberal voters to turn up to vote NDP and block a Ford win, now that they feel the NDP has a strong chance. Tough to say.

[Jacks]

It should increase the turnout for sure, I think most of the Liberal supporters that are going to switch to the NDP already have. If Ford wasn't the leader a bunch of them probably would have switched to the PC's instead.

[Ashasx]

Andrea Horwath defends NDP candidate over Remembrance Day comments

KINGSTON, ONT.—An NDP candidate who railed against wearing poppies on Remembrance Day as a “ritual of war glorification,” yet said she’d sign up for “a war on Christmas,” is being defended by party Leader Andrea Horwath.

“Many people have many diverse opinions and we value free speech,” Horwath said Sunday as she faced questions for the second time this weekend about controversial remarks from her candidates in the run-up to the June 7 election.

Doug Ford’s Progressive Conservatives charged that Kaminker’s remarks point to “radical” elements in Horwath’s ranks and noted the candidate has thanked Twitter followers for their support.

https://www.thestar.com/news/queensp...-comments.html

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I hope Ford wins.

Fix Or Repair Daily.

[CaptainCrunch]

With 2 weeks to go, Horwath coming up in the polls is actually a difficulty, Ford and Wynne are going to target her. She's already taking a beating over the budget mistake and she's beeing hit pretty hard over the closing of a nuclear powerplant that could cost over 4000 jobs, that she said should happen.


Andrea had some pretty good momentum in the last election and then imploded in the end.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Jacks

It should increase the turnout for sure, I think most of the Liberal supporters that are going to switch to the NDP already have. If Ford wasn't the leader a bunch of them probably would have switched to the PC's instead.

They are actually predicting record lows for turnouts. That usually predicts a PC win. :/

[CaptainCrunch]

On Friday in Kenora, on the first day of a three-day campaign swing through northwestern Ontario to Grassy Narrows, Sault Ste. Marie and Ottawa, Horwath had to deal with controversial comments from local candidate Glen Archer, a corrections officer.


He had posted on Facebook that Liberal Leader Kathleen Wynne, premier since 2013, “should be in prison” for “blowing taxpayers’ money” and listed his favourite movie quote as “If I want your opinion, I’ll beat it out of you.”

So lock her up isn't just a right wing buzz phrase.

[Cheese]

NSFW!

[CaptainCrunch]

nm

[Rubicant]

I don’t know who I want to win this election.

Asteroid strike 2018.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Cheese

They are actually predicting record lows for turnouts. That usually predicts a PC win. :/

I hope so for the sake of Ontarians. I wouldn’t wish an NDP government on my worst enemy.

[GordonBlue]

Ontario election promises a tax-and-borrow-and-spend jamboree: Neil Macdonald

The battered, unpopular premier, Kathleen Wynne, and the apparently ascendant NDP leader, Andrea Horwath, are competing over how much they'll spend. And Doug Ford is no more credible than the other two.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/ontar...tion-1.4673335

the dilemma of the Ontario voter is understandable.

But someone must form a government. The best option is to read platforms and make a decision, on good old economic self-interest, if nothing else.

[CaptainCrunch]

I'd feel sorry for Ontario as they have three horrible candidates, but its their dishwater and they're soaking in it.


Its pretty clear that Wynne has decided to go after the NDP on their platform which seems to have a bunch of errors in it, and the closing of the Pickering nuclear plant that the NDP want to do this year which will kill between 4500 and 7500 jobs.


Gaining the lead and the momentum at the start of the campaign is well and good, but now they have to stand up to a lot more scrutiny from both parties.