New Allegations against Kent Hehr

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

No, it's not. Which is funny coming from someone with corporate in their name. Clearly your HR has failed you on this one.

Unwanted comments, such as "you're yummy" clearly in reference to the physical and sex of the person, is very clear sexual misconduct. It's a very broad term, but also very clear one.

But sure, we're Nazis because we don't think women should be called babe, yummy, or honey in the workplace.

I'll chime in because I do work in HR. I'm not sure the point you were trying to make by using the term 'sexual misconduct' when you could have just said sexual harassment. It did seem kind of misleading in the way you were using it, regardless of whether you are technically correct or not.

But back on track, most harassment policies will have specific language that addresses comments on physical appearance, which I would consider this. I'm not really sure if this would be considered a term of endearment. But this would still be a violation of the policy.

If Ken said this at our workplace with no other history/misconduct on file, he'd probably written up.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Again, harassment and bullying can - without more - lead to emotional distress of various types. Those are not, however, matters of personal safety, despite being bad. If I make fun of you in front of your peers to the extent you feel serious emotional distress, I might be an a-hole, and certainly I might even deserve to get fired if we work in the same place, but you don't get to call the police unless you have a reasonable fear that I'm going to physically assault you in some way. That's the "more" that takes us over the line into a safety issue.

You have a really weird habit of conflating legal definitions of words with their colloquial usage. Most of the world doesn't operate like that and expecting it to is more than a little unreasonable.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

What word am I ascribing a legal usage to? If you're really tied to colloquial usage, frankly, more or less the whole world uses the word "safety" in this context to refer to physical safety, not the prevention of emotional distress.

[Bigtime]

So let's say Kent steps down because of all this, does Calgary Centre have a by-election? If so who do the Libs run? Chima (if he's interested)?

[chemgear]

Sarah Browning‏
@sarahbrowning8

Warnings of Kent Hehr have been circulating the halls of Parliament Hill for over a year:

"Stay away from him at receptions."
"Don't let his hands get close to you."
"Don't get close to him when he drinks."

Expect more. The floodgates are open.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I'll chime in because I do work in HR. I'm not sure the point you were trying to make by using the term 'sexual misconduct' when you could have just said sexual harassment. It did seem kind of misleading in the way you were using it, regardless of whether you are technically correct or not.

Sorry, but what do you mean by this?

Headline: "Trudeau says he will speak to Sport Minister Kent Hehr about sexual misconduct allegations"

I wasn't the one perpetuating its usage, the poster in question was the first to mention it after the article repeatedly made usage of the term. It's clear from the headline and accusation that they were using sexual misconduct as the umbrella term that included sexual harassment, but I don't really know why someone would be confused or why you would take issue with it.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

So let's say Kent steps down because of all this, does Calgary Centre have a by-election? If so who do the Libs run? Chima (if he's interested)?

Doubt he steps down per se, unless some hard evidence/charges are laid.

He will very likely be booted to the back bench however to get his full term in.

[killer_carlson]

How long does Hehr need to be an MP to qualify for his pension?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

What word am I ascribing a legal usage to? If you're really tied to colloquial usage, frankly, more or less the whole world uses the word "safety" in this context to refer to physical safety, not the prevention of emotional distress.

This is the line that made me think you were looking at a legal definition.

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I might be an a-hole, and certainly I might even deserve to get fired if we work in the same place, but you don't get to call the police unless you have a reasonable fear that I'm going to physically assault you in some way. That's the "more" that takes us over the line into a safety issue.

This is yet another stupid semantics debate that I'm surprised I let myself get roped into again but I doubt you could get a consensus on the definition of unsafe as it really relies on subjective interpretations of harm and danger. It could also very well be that the person in question misspoke and used "unsafe" when she meant "distressed" or something else. It's also probably the least important aspect of the story.

[CaptainCrunch]

The best right now that Hehr can hope for is a boot to the back bench with a solid keep your mouth shut and behave by Trudeau.

the more likely because of the subject matter, Trudeau boots him out of the party and sends him to Independence ville.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

How long does Hehr need to be an MP to qualify for his pension?

I think its four years.

But I could be wrong.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

How long does Hehr need to be an MP to qualify for his pension?

Retirement age:

For pensionable service accrued prior to January 1, 2016, a plan member with 6 years of service may receive their pension as early as age 55.

For pensionable service accrued on or after January 1, 2016, a plan member with 6 years of service may receive an unreduced pension at age 65.

https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-bo...sion-plan.html

[ricosuave]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I mean, maybe he shouldn't lose his job, but how is it unreasonable to expect a grown ass man to know that telling a woman she's "yummy" might be off-putting?

What about legions of women who refer to themselves as a yummy mummy, and similar?

Is it empowerment from their side?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by rubecube

This is the line that made me think you were looking at a legal definition.

I see the confusion. I wasn't suggesting that something being unsafe required that it have criminal consequences. I don't know of any common legal definition of "unsafe" or the concept of safety in general (probably something in the labour context but I have no expertise there). I was simply illustrating the difference in what society sees as appropriate consequences and appropriate response to situations involving physical assaults (whether injurious or otherwise) and psychological discomfort.

This is yet another stupid semantics debate that I'm surprised I let myself get roped into again but I doubt you could get a consensus on the definition of unsafe as it really relies on subjective interpretations of harm and danger.

This assumption on your part - that the definition relies on the subjective view of the person who's assessing their own situation - is actually where we differ, I think. On my view, it's clearly possible for someone to feel unsafe for stupid and unreasonable reasons. In such a case, the person isn't lying, they're just being hysterical by an objective standard. Your view of the matter doesn't account for personal bias, and isn't really functional as a definition (which I think is why you're right to say that you'd never get a consensus on what it means).

As for the semantics, I still say words matter, especially when they obviously carry stigmas and implied consequences. If being a sexual predator harms your reputation and ability to function in society, it really matters quite a lot what it means to be a sexual predator.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by chemgear

What would you call that kind of behavior from a person in a position of power in the workplace treating their coworkers (systemic behavior reported from multiple sources)? That other women in the workplace need to warn each other to avoid situations of possible harassment?

I get that you know/have met/are friends(?) with Kent Hehr and that you dismissed the avrious group of women that stepped up to object to his behavior. Is this the behavior that we tolerate from our paid representatives in government; how they treat their constituents and their own coworkers in our government?

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but would you tolerate this kind of behavior in your work environment?

Well first of all, I'm not dismissing anyone’s complaints, or at least that’s not my intention, so let’s get that out of the way.

Of course I wouldn’t condone this behaviour, and that’s not really up for debate either. I’m not going to defend this as a proper action or anything like it, if that’s what you’re hoping for. I just think that I would want to hear from Kent on his version of these events and such before I would call for the axe.

[Bigtime]

3 minutes ago:

Cormac Mac Sweeney‏Verified account

@cmaconthehill

4m4 minutes agoMore



Another woman steps forward about allegations against Minister @kenthehr. She claims to @LumsdenNews of @CityNews that on the 3 or 4 times she met Hehr he always had a suggestive comment to make about her. She also claims he could be "grabby." #cdnpoli

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

What about legions of women who refer to themselves as a yummy mummy, and similar?

Is it empowerment from their side?

Sure, let's go with empowerment.

I mean, there's an obvious difference between someone else calling themselves, or allowing their loved ones and friends to call them something, than a stranger or acquaintance you barely know deciding what they will call you. Especially in a workplace environment.

But would this not be the same discussion if he were to used the "N" word? Would you be referring to the legions of black people? I doubt it, so why did you need to make a point that other women (not this one) call themselves yummy when another suggested it was inappropriate...

I can't believe people need to be told that calling someone "yummy" is sexual harassment and inappropriate. Probably the same people wondering why women needed to march last week.

[Kjesse]

This doesn't look good but be wary of relying upon rumours and unnamed sources.

[Bigtime]

Incoming:

David Akin ����‏Verified account

@davidakin

5m5 minutes agoMore



KENT HEHR RESIGNS FROM CABINET AFTER ALLEGATIONS OF INAPPROPRIATE BEHAVIOR

[jeffporfirio]

What happens now? Does he go back to being an MP?