What is a realistic way of Improving the Calgary Flames ?

[ComixZone]

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Bennett - Backlund - Frolik
Tkachuk - Jankowski - Jagr
Versteeg - F. Hamilton - Hathaway
Lazar

Giordano - Hamilton
Brodie - Hamonic
Kulak - Stone
Bartkowski

Smith
Rittich

PP1:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Jagr
Stone - Giordano

PP2:

Versteeg - Backlund - Tkachuk
Brodie - Hamilton

PK1:

Backlund - Frolik
Giordano - Stone

PK2:

Monahan - Bennett
Hamilton - Hamonic

Those are the line-up changes I’d make right now.

If we were to look externally, the target should be Evander Kane. Listening to Rob Ray talk about him the other week, and looking at the strengths of his game - he’d be a great fit this year and long term in my opinion.

[David Struch]

Call up the farm boys...

Andrew Mangiapane 18gp 8g 13a 21p
Garnet Hathaway 18gp 11g 8a 19p
Marek Hrivik 16gp 6g 12a 18p
Morgan Klimchuk 18gp 8g 5a 13p
Rasmus Andersson 15gp 2g 9a 11p

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Mangiapane - Backlund - Tkachuk
Frolik - Hrivik - Jagr
Klimchuk - Jankowski - Hathaway

Giordano - Hamilton
Brodie - Hamonic
Stone - Andersson

*Inform Sam Bennett that Hunter Shinkaruk & Ryan Lomberg will gladly take your place in the press box.

[Yrebmi]

Originally Posted by Karl

I don't think it would be just as simple as calling up Hathaway because all of Flames 4th line centres of Stajan, Freddie and Lazar are done or hopeless.

Originally Posted by Karl

No it's not.

And no he wasn't. He just wasn't as flat out bad back then.

Originally Posted by Karl

Heh, if only it was that easy. Lazar should not be playing. He's hopeless too.

All of Stajan, Freddie and Lazar are just unplayable.

Originally Posted by Karl

Doesn't matter. He's stagnated and has reached the end of his talent level.

Plus, it's clear he has absolute minimal offensive talent. I can't see him getting any better than he is now.

What did Lazar do to you?
Clearly it would be personal if he were to find sucess

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I get that and I'm aware that line isn't really producing much below last season's levels but as far as the eye test goes they haven't looked as good and I feel that Backlund and Tkachuk are being held back a little offensively as plays have been dying on Frolik's stick. It's evident if you keep the line together that you will get a 50,48,35 point season from the players but if you ever want more out of Backlund or Tkachuk you will have to upgrade the 35 point player on the line. I like Frolik and think he's a useful player but I'm not sure if he's ideally in your top 6.

I think you have unrealistic expectations for 2nd line production. Backlund and Tkachuk are both among the top 100 forwards in production, which means theyr'e putting up points with the very best 2nd liners in the league. You really think it's realistic with this lineup to get even more out of our 2nd line? I honestly don't think it's likely. If we want to increase scoring, it needs to come from the bottom 6 and defense.

However, I'm not actually opposed to moving Frolik away from that line. I would simply do it for other reasons. I think moving him off the 3M line is likely to weaken that line, but since he's the weakest link offensively the impact would probably be smaller than if you'd move Tkachuk.

Our other lines could use help in the things Frolik is very good at, most specifically in defensive duties and getting the puck from our end to theirs. Plus I think Frolik is the kind of guy who can probably put up some points even with worse linemates. Mr. Consistent. Oh and he'd probably love playing with Jagr

So really then it mostly becomes a question of who to move up? I think there's basically four options:

- Bennett? Not a bad option. Maybe Tkachuks swagger would help Bennett. Bennett can also be pretty decent in his own end, even if his offense is just non-existent, so that line could still do a lot of defensive work. Maybe move Bennett to the other wing, it's the last thing we haven't tried.

- Jagr? Probably the best option offensively. However I'm worried that the line would become too slow as a whole. Also there's the question of how often is he going to be healthy.

- Versteeg? Probably the least favourite option, but if you look for guys in our roster who we know has the potential to be better, there's not a lot of other options. Versteeg can absolutely be better. Maybe Tkachuk and Backlund would bring the good Versteeg back.

- Mangiapane? Just throwing this out there, and it would be a bit of a wild card option, but if offense is really our primary concern, then Mangiapane I think is someone who should be given a shot, and while you're at it, give him a position to thrive.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Bennett - Backlund - Frolik
Tkachuk - Jankowski - Jagr
Versteeg - F. Hamilton - Hathaway
Lazar

Giordano - Hamilton
Brodie - Hamonic
Kulak - Stone
Bartkowski

Smith
Rittich

PP1:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Jagr
Stone - Giordano

PP2:

Versteeg - Backlund - Tkachuk
Brodie - Hamilton

PK1:

Backlund - Frolik
Giordano - Stone

PK2:

Monahan - Bennett
Hamilton - Hamonic

Those are the line-up changes I’d make right now.

If we were to look externally, the target should be Evander Kane. Listening to Rob Ray talk about him the other week, and looking at the strengths of his game - he’d be a great fit this year and long term in my opinion.

I was just talking to my colleague about fixing the third line and I agree swapping Bennett and Tkachuk could help spread the depth around the lineup. Bennett with a long look playing with Backs and Fro could help him get his game back so he is at least a decent player. I also think the cycle and pick possesion and a Tkachuk-Janko-Jagr line would be fun to watch. All big bodies that would be tough to take the puck from

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

What did Lazar do to you?

Nothing.

I just don't see any indication of an NHL player in watching him.

[madmike]

I have to agree on Lazar. There's a reason Ottawa gave up on him. Lazar, Versteeg, Brouwer, Stajan, Hamilton - the forward depth is really depressing.

With Janko and Bennett you just have to hope they can improve and find some chemistry. And at least they're not getting crushed on possession and chances.

But the 4th line is just brutal, no matter who is on it.

[SebC]

It seems to me that the Flames main problems are:
- Having breakouts forced to the outside resulting in sustained possession against.
- Ineffective forechecking resulting in easy zone entries for opponents.
- Defensive zone turnovers during puck retrieval and breakout initiation.
- Lack of offensive production outside of the first line.

Solutions:
- Three skaters in the defensive zone for breakouts when against a two-man forecheck.
- Green light head-man passing between the red line and offensive zone blue line.
- Activate the defense more when on offense.
- Defensively, stack the blue line and limit Smith's puck handling. When Smith has the puck behind the net, it's only really safe for him to move it along the boards. Having the skaters initiate breakouts opens up the short passes towards the middle of the ice.

[Red]

Originally Posted by SebC

It seems to me that the Flames main problems are:
- Having breakouts forced to the outside resulting in sustained possession against.
- Ineffective forechecking resulting in easy zone entries for opponents.
- Defensive zone turnovers during puck retrieval and breakout initiation.
- Lack of offensive production outside of the first line.

Solutions:
- Fire GG
- Get a new coach that uses a different system.

Fixed your post

[N-E-B]

I think there's a real possibility of a trade for a third line winger coming in. I just can't see them breaking up the top two lines.

The biggest change I'd like to see is swapping Stone and Hamonic. Brodie and Stone look great together. It's pretty obvious that Brodie and Hamonic just aren't meshing like we'd hoped. That doesn't mean they're bad players, I just think it's time to admit the pairing is a dud and switch it up.

I could go on a power play rant but that's been beaten to death already.

[shadowlord]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Can't deny the first line's success and Gulutzan should some credit for that I suppose.

While our first line suppressed theirs; I'd argue that our first line has been among the tops in the league for the past 10 games.

So the Matthews-line suppression of our top line had a better impact on the game's outcome than Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland did in suppressing theirs.

If what Babcock said is true about the first-line matchup resulting in more TOR offensive zone time, then GG should have adjusted to get our top line to softer minutes.

Recent history shows they're good enough to contribute a couple of goals per game, and that might have been the difference last night.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by SebC

It seems to me that the Flames main problems are:
- Having breakouts forced to the outside resulting in sustained possession against.
- Ineffective forechecking resulting in easy zone entries for opponents.
- Defensive zone turnovers during puck retrieval and breakout initiation.
- Lack of offensive production outside of the first line.

Solutions:
- Three skaters in the defensive zone for breakouts when against a two-man forecheck.
- Green light head-man passing between the red line and offensive zone blue line.
- Activate the defense more when on offense.
- Defensively, stack the blue line and limit Smith's puck handling. When Smith has the puck behind the net, it's only really safe for him to move it along the boards. Having the skaters initiate breakouts opens up the short passes towards the middle of the ice.

Good points, I’ll try to elaborate on the bolded using this play that led to the first Dallas goal. I don't think it's a case of not knowing what to do when the walls are taken away - their strategy of dealing with that kind of forecheck is to swing it in the opposite direction, but it's just not fast enough much of the time. And if a puck skips over a blade or a pass fanned on, goodnight Suzy.

You can tell that Hitchcock was expecting the Smith breakout and was well prepared for it. Smith only has two options to pass to. They send in all 3 forwards - Pitlick attacks Smith behind the net to force the puck to one side (Brodie) while Faksa is positioned strongly on the boards to take away that option.



Roussel will veer towards Dougie on the attack just to make sure Smith doesn't try to reverse it to him, then cuts right to the middle to take away the cross-ice pass. Brodie actually had a good idea here - he used the “puck off the boards behind the back” trick to momentarily make Pitlick get into Faksa’s way, and for a moment Brodie has some space.



Dougie, reading off Brodie, cuts behind Smith, anticipating the D-to-D pass behind the net. All Brodie had to do here was kick the puck up to his blade and dish it off quickly to Dougie, and two Dallas forecheckers would have been stuck on the weak side with the puck quickly advancing back up the ice.



Of course, that didn’t happen. Brodie misses the puck with his skate, gets double teamed here, and Backlund did not give him proper puck support on the wall. In addition, Dougie, who was expecting the aforementioned setup, realizes far too slow that both his teammates have actually lost the puck battle and is left in no man’s land.



So how do you improve this breakout when teams have figured it out? People who point to a lack of forward support have it correct - there is puck support, just not the proper kind suitable for this play. Backlund's role here (as shown by the 2nd image above) is to give puck support to whichever defenceman gets the pass on the wall, to help chip it out to the wingers.

What I think he should be doing, as well as all the other centers, is presenting himself as a 3rd option in the slot. In the PGT I pointed to Justin Bourne's TheScore article on why that was a way better option than just hoping to rifle it around the boards and out. It's just not feasible to forecheck both defenders, the goalie and the center all at once, and the Flames should be capitalizing on that.

My suggestion here when Smith has a forechecker on him behind the net is to have the center follow the puck down low instead of turning to the boards, then swing past the front of the net in the opposite direction to whichever the other team is trying to corral the puck. You can swing past in the same direction as well (green arrow) but you’d be advancing the puck starting from a position closer to the two strong-side forecheckers, a much riskier position.

Because you've effectively trapped 3 forecheckers in deep and have speed coming out of your zone, this kind of a breakout should only be contested in the neutral zone by the two dmen still hanging back while getting no help from their forwards. This should free up 1 dman to join the rush as well.

[Flamescuprun2018]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a bad idea to swap Tkachuk and Bennett around when Jagr comes back to try and spark things in that area as well. You know the 3M line will be good regardless, but getting two lines to work would be better than just one.

I am most keen on this forward adjustment as worth trying first. Bennett needs a spark even though he has not earned 2nd line promotion. 4 goal night with Backlund at center. Bennett should be replaying those highlights every night to regain his shattered confidence.

Tkachuk and Jankowski can both bury Jagr passes and make that line a monster cycling line to wear down opponents. High IQ 3rd line.

4th line needs a speedy new center. Stajan has definitely regressed alot. But noone on the farm that fits the bill. If Lazar could step up we'd be fine but we are losing patience. No major issues with Versteeg and Brouwer as 4th liners. ONLY TRADE TO CONSIDER

On defence. Hamonic needs more time to adjust. Only shakeup worth experimenting with is Stone with Brodie and Hamonic with Kulak to even out the 3 D pairings. But GG plays 3rd pairing less usually.

Stone definitely worth trying on the point for his cannon of a shot on PP1 or PP2. How many of these cannon shots have already led to goals this year!

If Bennett to second line fails, might also be interesting to try Mangiapane on 2nd or 3rd line LW and move Bennett to fourth line center. With F. Hamilton to the farm. Mangiapane-Jankowski have chemistry.

[Corral]

I know this thread is begging for them, but so many knee-jerk reactions here. The team is on a playoff pace, is sorting thru immediate issues (#2 goalie), and just came back from a successful road trip.

Suggestions like fire the coach when the team is 3 or 4 games above 0.500? Bring in problem characters like Evander Kane? Some of these ideas seem really ridiculous.

While there were plenty of conversations around here about the 'window' opening this year, it may just be that was premature and we are still a couple years off with this core from really contending. That's my view. Patience. Tinker along the margins for now.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Corral

I know this thread is begging for them, but so many knee-jerk reactions here. The team is on a playoff pace, is sorting thru immediate issues (#2 goalie), and just came back from a successful road trip.



Suggestions like fire the coach when the team is 3 or 4 games above 0.500? Bring in problem characters like Evander Kane? Some of these ideas seem really ridiculous.



While there were plenty of conversations around here about the 'window' opening this year, it may just be that was premature and we are still a couple years off with this core from really contending. That's my view. Patience. Tinker along the margins for now.

I could understand this thinking if the Flames hadn’t just given up a swathe of first and second round picks over the last few years, but they did and management is now all in on what appears to be a team playing barely average hockey. That has to be unacceptable.

[bubbsy]

Most suggestions are changing lines and pairings.

Is that not tinkering along the margins?

[herashak]

The man has programmed me to think that a new arena is what it will take.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

What did Lazar do to you?
Clearly it would be personal if he were to find sucess

Lazar is not good enough for the league he's in. All he's doing is occupying space and collecting a cheque. He has 2 points in 17 games and he's -5.

During the preseason, we couldn't waive him because we spent a 2nd to get him, and you don't want to lose the asset for nothing.

Nobody is claiming Curtis Lazar now. If they do, good for them - he has exactly 2 more points and he's +5 better than Blake friggen Comeau was waived by the Isles and claimed by us. That's absolutely terrible.

He can go down to the AHL and try to rediscover the stuff that made him a 1st round pick, but the NHL is not a developmental league. He's not good enough, and Karl is right - you can't play any of Freddie, Stajan or Lazar right now.

[JJFlash]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

I would like to see our 4th line play with more energy. That would be as simple as calling up Hathaway IMO.
I think you are dead wrong if you believe Brodie would not be coveted league wide. There would be huge demand for him, warts and all. I also think it would be foolish to trade him while his value is lowered.

I agree, I could see Brodie his good contract would be highly coveted and could be used to secure a top 6 forward.

[kyuss275]

Seen a bunch of posts condemeing lazar , Brouwer, Versteeg, Stajan and Hamilton. I do agree they have been aweful, but not sure why Bennett's name is not on those lists. Hell, in some posts Bennett somehow gets a promotion to 2nd line. Bennett has been worse than Brouwer and Versteeg ( and i'm not high on those 2 players). He has been borderline better than Lazar. Bennett should thank his lucky stars that flames coaching staff has been this patient with him this year.

I would also add that old man Jagr is no where as good as a majority posters think he is. The man looks done like dinner. He is not bad ( i mean average at best) in the offensive zone, and the second he loses the puck he is useless .

How to fix this??? Don't think it can be done durring the year. Hope to hell that players in bottom start playing a lot better.