Will Brouwer Get Sent Down This Year?

[Machiavelli]

It was a broken hand, right? They don't take all that long to heal, and the issues I've noticed with Brouwer wouldn't be affected by that anyway

[united]

At this point, Brouwer is basically hockey's version of what us soccer fans know as the classic poacher.

In attack he heads straight to the front of the other team's net and waits for passes or rebounds while offering nothing in the way of help creating chances or maintaining the cycle.
Offers nothing in terms of creativity in counter-attack.
Offers nothing in the way of puck pursuit or funneling opposition players into smaller areas of the ice (forechecking/neutral zone).
Anonymous on defence.
You have to give him credit for one thing: he is really good in front of the other team's net...but that's where it ends.

Unfortunately, in hockey you can't afford to have players occupying a role like that. Even in soccer the role has been disappearing.

[Krovikan]

Originally Posted by united

At this point, Brouwer is basically hockey's version of what us soccer fans know as the classic poacher.

In attack he heads straight to the front of the other team's net and waits for passes or rebounds while offering nothing in the way of help creating chances or maintaining the cycle.
Offers nothing in terms of creativity in counter-attack.
Offers nothing in the way of puck pursuit or funneling opposition players into smaller areas of the ice (forechecking/neutral zone).
Anonymous on defence.
You have to give him credit for one thing: he is really good in front of the other team's net...but that's where it ends.

Unfortunately, in hockey you can't afford to have players occupying a role like that. Even in soccer the role has been disappearing.

For someone good infront of the net, he sure was easily controlled last night.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by united

At this point, Brouwer is basically hockey's version of what us soccer fans know as the classic poacher.

In attack he heads straight to the front of the other team's net and waits for passes or rebounds while offering nothing in the way of help creating chances or maintaining the cycle.
Offers nothing in terms of creativity in counter-attack.
Offers nothing in the way of puck pursuit or funneling opposition players into smaller areas of the ice (forechecking/neutral zone).
Anonymous on defence.
You have to give him credit for one thing: he is really good in front of the other team's net...but that's where it ends.

Unfortunately, in hockey you can't afford to have players occupying a role like that. Even in soccer the role has been disappearing.

I thought we addressed this when we let Lance Bouma go. He too was starting to show the same kind of habits.

[MisterJoji]

I’m not even sure demoting him to the AHL is necessary. If you disregard his salary, I have no issue with him on the 4th line getting 6-8 minutes a night. His offensive game has pretty much evaporated but with a line of Brouwer-Stajan-Hathaway/Hamilton he’s the most likely guy who could pop in a goal here and there. But, for the love of god, keep him away from Bennett. Versteeg-Bennett-Lazar until Jagr is ready.

[northcrunk]

His broken hand must be connected to his feet. Maybe they had to fill his legs with concrete.

[pepper24]

We are stuck with Brouwer for the season on our 4th line. Nobody will trade for him and if we do it'll be a bad return back. The Flames aren't going to bury $4.5 MM in the minors.

Every team has this type of bad contract and if he doesn't step up this season he would be candidate for a buy-out in the summer. Nothing happens until summer so best to accept him on the 4th line.

[cannon7]

I can only assume that Gulutzan is trying to help Brouwer play out of his funk. Brodie, too. No idea what is going on with this team behind closed doors. Whatever it is, it's producing a mess on the ice.

[Spinach]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

No he wasn't he was awful. Hemmed in all night.

Worst CF% on the team at 23% confirms the eye test.

I'm not 100% clear on advanced stats, but that possession stat probably isn't all that meaningful for a 4th-line banger. Him having one of the lowest plus-minuses on the team wouldn't be all that meaningful, either.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by cannon7

I can only assume that Gulutzan is trying to help Brouwer play out of his funk. Brodie, too. No idea what is going on with this team behind closed doors. Whatever it is, it's producing a mess on the ice.

I'm anti Brouwer as anybody... but its been one game this year.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Spinach

I'm not 100% clear on advanced stats, but that possession stat probably isn't all that meaningful for a 4th-line banger. Him having one of the lowest plus-minuses on the team wouldn't be all that meaningful, either.

Why not, exactly?

When a line ends its shift with a desperate dump in, the next line is scrambling to generate something as the opponent is already breaking out with control. The next line might be Gaudreau, Ferland, Monahan already backchecking at the start of their shift instead of coming in one-by-one against tired opponents. These things cascade.

Handwaving poor performance from "fourth line bangers" is lazy. Everything has an indirect consequence.

[Bingo]

Was looking at his past five seasons to see where things have gone wrong for the player.

I wonder if the speed change in the game is what did him in?

His CF% ...

2013 47.7%
2014 47.9%
2015 50.9%
2016 49.6%
2017 44.7%

fell off the cliff

Relative CF%

2013 -1.35%
2014 0.28%
2015 -0.64%
2016 -3.25%
2017 7.33%

Two year slide into big trouble

Zone starts (Sheltering)

2013 42.0%
2014 47.8%
2015 55.1%
2016 40.4%
2017 52.2%

He was actually given tough minutes in St. Louis

The player should be a decent third liner that is overpaid by $1.5M per season. Not a guy that has to be bought out.

[stone hands]

He reminds me almost exactly like Chris Butler if he was a forward

Bigger guy, can't skate, treats the puck like a grenade, never in the right spot, doesn't hit, isn't physical

I get flashbacks seeing him out there

[rohara66]

Originally Posted by stone hands

He reminds me almost exactly like Chris Butler if he was a forward

Bigger guy, can't skate, treats the puck like a grenade, never in the right spot, doesn't hit, isn't physical

I get flashbacks seeing him out there

Yea, good call.

"please dont pass me the puck... please dont pass me the puck.... oh #### I have the puck now what...." as he fires a garbage pass to Bennett.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Handwaving poor performance from "fourth line bangers" is lazy. Everything has an indirect consequence.

This can't be said enough. Another hypothetical: 4th line bangers get hemmed in own zone until goalie has to freeze the puck... the next unit out is now starting out further from the offensive zone and will now have to gain possession of the puck and log it further up the ice to generate any offence. Poor performance by anyone shouldn't be brushed off.

And as far as having one of the lowest plus-minuses on the team not being meaningful either... +/- is a flawed stat but I consider getting outscored 5v5 pretty meaningful. You just have to adjust for context.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Was looking at his past five seasons to see where things have gone wrong for the player.

I wonder if the speed change in the game is what did him in?

His CF% ...

2013 47.7%
2014 47.9%
2015 50.9%
2016 49.6%
2017 44.7%

fell off the cliff

Relative CF%

2013 -1.35%
2014 0.28%
2015 -0.64%
2016 -3.25%
2017 7.33%

Two year slide into big trouble

Zone starts (Sheltering)

2013 42.0%
2014 47.8%
2015 55.1%
2016 40.4%
2017 52.2%

He was actually given tough minutes in St. Louis

The player should be a decent third liner that is overpaid by $1.5M per season. Not a guy that has to be bought out.

I'm sure that was the hope when he was signed, but he's not that.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Was looking at his past five seasons to see where things have gone wrong for the player.

I wonder if the speed change in the game is what did him in?

His CF% ...

2013 47.7%
2014 47.9%
2015 50.9%
2016 49.6%
2017 44.7%

fell off the cliff

Relative CF%

2013 -1.35%
2014 0.28%
2015 -0.64%
2016 -3.25%
2017 7.33%

Two year slide into big trouble

Zone starts (Sheltering)

2013 42.0%
2014 47.8%
2015 55.1%
2016 40.4%
2017 52.2%

He was actually given tough minutes in St. Louis

The player should be a decent third liner that is overpaid by $1.5M per season. Not a guy that has to be bought out.

Is there a chance he was playing with players that gave him in a bump in his other seasons? Would be interesting to see wowy from his 14/15 and 15/16 season to see if he was just getting a bump from better linemates.

[Spinach]

Originally Posted by Parallex

This can't be said enough. Another hypothetical: 4th line bangers get hemmed in own zone until goalie has to freeze the puck... the next unit out is now starting out further from the offensive zone and will now have to gain possession of the puck and log it further up the ice to generate any offence. Poor performance by anyone shouldn't be brushed off.

And as far as having one of the lowest plus-minuses on the team not being meaningful either... +/- is a flawed stat but I consider getting outscored 5v5 pretty meaningful. You just have to adjust for context.

The ripple effect is real, of course, and context is indeed crucial to the measurements. Seeing a lower CF% or a -1 beside a 4th-liner's name shouldn't come as a surprise, though. That's not laziness or a rationalization - it's just common sense.

Now, it would be telling if said 4th-liner is a -3 on the night while most of his teammates are, say, a +1. As for corsi, it's a pet peeve of mine to see a player's CF% with zero context. How does it compare to his teammates? To other players in the league playing similar roles? And... where the hell am I?

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I'm anti Brouwer as anybody... but its been one game this year.

About 55 overall though, it took the first 20 games last season for the reality to set in

[DeluxeMoustache]

1 game. Thread should be shelved until game 5 or better 10.

The whole team laid an egg in game 1.